I have been working my dog, Penelope, in the drive, focus, grip exercises for about a month. So far, we have had great success in all three areas, but I have a few questions. I just received Bernhard's lecture tape and he states that it is ok for the dog to chew on the ball, that it is not a big deal, but I remember otherwise from the drive dvd. My dog chews the ball, and we have been working on a calm carry of the ball for some time now, but it is not working. She chew when she is alone, even. She does not chew on the tug, however, and she shows a calm carry and firm non chewy grips. What should I do? Just work the carry exercises with the tug and use the ball for obedience reward? Or continue to try to get her calm with the ball? will I have problems with the dumbell because of the ball problem?

Also, the counter. Is the counter a good thing, I mean, does it mean that the dog is feeling conflict between its desire for the prey item and its inability to get it? What I am seeing, specifically, is violent shaking, high pitched whining, and deep rebites, and the intensity varies whether I work my other dogs in front of her, ect. Does one reward this? Which one? Also, she would rather tug than do the arms exercise. Any longer than a second of two,snd she turns toward me wanting to fight. Should I lessen the arms exercise, or do more frequently, with less time in the arms?

Sorry this is so long, so many questions come up when you are new! Thanks.

You can do obedience with a ball and do the bite work seperately with the tug if that is what works best. You want to continue to use whatever works best in the obedience.I wouldnt worry alot about chewing on the ball, especially if the dogs doing a calm grip and carry on the tug.I also wouldnt be worried about the ball chewing transfering to the dumbell, that is another excersise with different techniques you can use.
As far as your counter question, the deep rebite is what your after.You want to reward the deep rebite by letting the dog win the tug when it shows this type of confidence.Dont let go of the tug immediately though, but very soon after the deep rebite.Preferabely let the dog rip it away from you after the rebite. If you just imediately let go of the tug when it rebites you could accidentally teach the dog to do a bunch of rebites in a row which is also called chewing.

Hi,

I agree with David, if the dog is chewing on the ball, then only use the tug for the grip work and not the ball.

As far as the rebiting goes, I also agree with David, you want a nice full counter, but then after the counter you want to wait until the dog is nice and calm on the release.

Hi guys, I am farly new to this sport, but is it OK for the dog to try ripping the tug from the handler, would not that translete to him ripping in the arm/sleeve of the helper in Schutzhund sport ???

Melissa the arm execirses you pull the dog into your arms and hold her while she on the bite. But your dog turns and wants to fight, whew I like that, but it might not be what they want for SchH training.

I think she is suppose to be calm and confident here and stay on the bite, right?


But I like that attitude, she wants more like "Get off me with that lovely dovely stuff, lets fight." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Probably not what you need, but what I want. I guess you can clam down by stroking the side of body and say calming things to her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Gunnar it is Ok for the dog to try to rip the sleeve off the decoy, pulling back on the bite. As long as the bite is full, intensity is ok.

Chewing the ball is not a big deal, the exercise is to build drive in the dog to work obedience for the ball later. In addition, not "all" dogs need to be held in the arms. Those that are hectic and need the stress relief to be calmed down are the ones that need to be held in the arms. If the dog has a full, hard & calm grip and is content to hold the sleeve, I wouldn't worry about trying to get him into my arms.

Umm...if we're talking about the Bernard Flinks method of training, chewing on a ball *is* a big deal - Bernard feels that it's a sign of conflict over the possession of a ball or article and he works hard to correct it.

The chewing may spill over to the dumbbell exercise, ending up in a considerable points deduction in Ob. And dogs that are chewy on the ball may also be developing a long term habit that will affect the grip in protection. You can clearly see Bernard talking about this in his videos.

Melissa, if you'll remember the recent seminar, Bernard worked the dog that would chew the item in the frontal sit - he feels like it's worth working on for the additional benefit of later exercises.

Quote: I just received Bernhard's lecture tape and he states that it is ok for the dog to chew on the ball, that it is not a big deal, but I remember otherwise from the drive dvd.

It appears that Bernhard has given conflicting information on the subject.

Quote: My dog chews the ball, and we have been working on a calm carry of the ball for some time now, but it is not working. She chew when she is alone, even.

My question is why does the dog have the ball when it is alone?

Quote: She does not chew on the tug, however, and she shows a calm carry and firm non chewy grips.

So then use the tug. This is what I prefer to reinforce a calm full grip, and as a precursor to the dumbell exercise, & front sit. I like the ball for heeling, the sit & down out of motion, and teaching the send out.

Qutoe: Also, the counter. Is the counter a good thing, I mean, does it mean that the dog is feeling conflict between its desire for the prey item and its inability to get it? What I am seeing, specifically, is violent shaking, high pitched whining, and deep rebites,

The counter is a good thing because the dog has to learn that the only way to win the prey item is with a full bite. I think the counter is even more important when you have a dog that likes to bite frontally. The high pitched whining, deep rebites etc. is due to the dog being so wound up in high prey that she is basically saying "just give it to me." My 8.5 month old dog does this too, but only when I'm posting him up or he is being worked on a tie out.

JMO, happy training! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

This was one of the many questions I forgot to ask at the seminar. In the lecture tape that Ed sent out before the seminar, Bernard specifically said that chewing on the ball was not a big deal, IF the dog did not also chew on the bite roll or tug. He said 'many dogs chew on the ball. If the dog is not chewing on the roll, but chew on the ball, the possibility of not chewing on the sleeve is very high'. If you want to see it, the queue is 2:24 on the dvd, third part, last scene, when he is outside.

I have pretty much taken care of this; the problem was that she was hectic, loaded too much, and lots of running in circle and arm exercises helped, however, she is still a bit conflicted about the come-fore position with the prey object. She just don't TRUST me that close to her prize, and I get a lot of oppositional. Still working on it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You know Penelope, she is such a tough dog to train. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

John, you posted too quick!

She had the ball alone only once, when I wanted to see if it was a handler problem, ie conflict. As I just posted, we have pretty much taken care of this, I seperated out the ball for obedience, and the tug and bite pillow for grip and targeting. The reason I decided that it was not a serious conflict issue in that regard was that if I backed up, she would follow me, step for step, and shove the tug into my lap or hands. I was concerned at the time because I had never seen such intensity on an object before, but now I know that that is high prey drive.
thanks!