First off I'm having trouble getting my pup to concentrate on the ball. If I hold the string at 6 inches, he has a tendency of shooting for the string. If I hold it at less than 6 inches (1-2 inches) I get nipped on my fingers...so my first question is, has anyone ever lost a finger playing this game?

Now I was thinking about what the first stages of this training is supposed to do--increase prey drive to the genetic cap of the animal. So, is it such a big deal that he's targeting the string as the prey item rather than the ball? We use tugs and other devices as prey items--what makes the string really bad?

My wife says "GRIP"...he needs something he can grip down onto. Any other thoughts?

Next, I had an observation--at least I think I did. My dog (like many) likes to chase stuff that makes noise. Vacuum cleaners, kids push toys etc. It *seems* like noises have something to do with getting the dog worked up--or is this an entirely different trait from prey drive...or is it related?

Feel free to laugh your ass off, I'm just trying to learn and understand. As always, thanks for any insight you choose to share with me.

IMO, young dogs that target the string rather than the ball is a common problem. Most of the time it is because of the handler, and the manner in which the target is being presented. I don't think it's possible to teach a dog proper grip development with a string. Yes, I'm sure a dog can bite down on a string and it may be hard to get the string away from the dog, however grip development is about teaching the dog to grip calmly and grip FULLY. A dog cannot have a full grip on a piece of string.

One thing you can try which really works well with a young dog (and will help you save your fingers) is try tying the ball to the end of a buggy whip, or light dowel rod, and jerk it around. If the dog has any prey drive whatsoever, this will usually get him very excited. This is a great training aid especially with young dogs. Eventually you can do away with the buggy whip and begin working the ball around your body again as demonstrated in the videos.

As far as the vacuumn cleaner: BA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (Only kidding, I couldn't resist.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How old is the dog?

He/she may not have the skills to grab the ball at this time. Depending on their age. The prey item is possibly moving too fast, so it is going for the slower and easier target the string or your fingers. If the dog grabs the string/fingers and stops the prey movement, the dog has succeeded in catching it. If the dog were a young puppy I would just use the rag or towel on the string technique and work your way up to the ball. If your dog is older, you can try the buggy whip method, but who’s to say that he still won’t bite the string or whip. You may just want to shorten the string on the ball and slow down the movement a little bit to allow the dog to target a little better. It could be your technique in moving the ball as well. When Bernard moves the ball it’s sailing through the air nice and graceful. As Ed mentions, like a matador luring a bull. Not all herky jerky like a ball on a paddle. When my dog was young he would do the same thing and bight the string or catch a finger or two. I bought a ball on the string from Ed and replaced the nylon mesh string with an elastic rock climbing rope. This allowed me to pull the string right out of his mouth with ease. The elastic and slippery nylon mesh made it impossible to clamp down on. So in the dog’s perspective he lost the prey item because he missed the ball. No different if the dog is not gripping hard enough he may loose it because you’re going to yank it out. Just remember to put you dog into drive the second you steal it back.

Just keep some band-aids around and you will be fine.

PS have you tried the vacuum on a string technique?

I have never seen the vaccum on a string. Do you need the self-propelled version?? Who has video of this?? I thought this was very funny.

My pup is about 6 months old and I just started this training with him. He has fair prey drive, somedays it's alot better than others...but at least he has it.

He can grab the ball, but it seems like the majority of the time he ends up grabbing the string. I didn't know what to do about this because I can't rip it out of his mouth, so I usually trade him the ball for the string then give him a little tug-action and if I pull it out I go back into building drive...or trying to.

I think you're correct Aki in my technique...I lack any type of technique. I figure if you took all off the video-clips of the people who didn't know what they were doing and combined them into one person--you'd have me.

But the rope I am using now is a kind of nylon...it doesn't prevent the pup from grasping it between his teeth and holding it

And what I meant by the vacuum on the string...was just the idea that the dog gets worked up by a prey item like a vacuum--and other things like my kids toys because of the noises they make. Hell, even my parents old rottweiler bitch got really pissy with the kids toys that make strange noises...that's the point I was trying to make--again, just kind of wondering if you had a prey item that made a noise that worked the dog up a little more..

Like the Cuz ball I have. Whenever I step on it, my dog goes bannanas. But when it's not making noise, he doesn't really care. But then at the same time, I wonder if a prey item that makes noise (and did indeed increase the dogs tendency to want to GET the item) would prove detrimental in later phases of training when the prey item changes to the sleeve...(just guessing this is where the training is headed).

Ken: "My pup is about 6 months old and I just started this training with him. He has fair prey drive, somedays it's alot better than others...but at least he has it."

Yet another reason to tie a ball to whip! It will bring the drive up in most cases. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

or I could just get a generator and bring my vacuum cleaner out on the training field...guess the whip would be a little easier logistics-wise. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey Ken,

You have a young pup I wouldn’t stress about it. You may try to replace the string on your ball as I did. Or as John suggested, a buggy whip. As for your technique, if all else fails try to practice moving the ball on the string without your dog. Why experiment on him. Handling your dog and knowing how to get him to work is the hardest part of dog training. So take your time. As for the noises probably natural instinct, but I would work on obedience and make him leave it. The last thing you need is your dog chasing cars and motorcycles as a hobby. Good Luck

PS. What about a dust buster on a string?

Ken, I just remembered that Bernhard sometimes switches to a softer toy for problems like this. A "soft" kong might be a good replacement for a "hard" rubber ball. Anyway, something else you can try.

he is doing better with the rubber ball. I've been keeping a closer eye on him and trying to emulate the video more and more each day--It seems like the higher he goes into drive, the more apt he is to try to go for the string to reward himself.

Another thing that is a little disturbing to me involves grip...although I don't know if I should be worried.

I also have a tug that occasionally use to play with the pup. He NEVER firmly grips the tug. I can pull it out of his mouth EVERY SINGLE TIME. The rubber ball is another story, sometimes firm grip where I can't pop it out of his mouth, other times weak grip.

But if you feel 6 months is still young and I can work him up to being better with all of this---I'll keep working. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just don't have enough experience to tell if this is a hopeless endeavor. My dog doesn't come from any working lines--he's just a run of the mill pup and I don't expect to be able to train him to be a level III in Schutzhund...I'm hoping with hard work that we might be able to get I.

possible?