I am a new k9 handler working for an ( ATU in high level securiry agency ) I have read alot about picking pups by how they react to stimuli or if the pup is dominant over his syblings yari.... yari... yari.... My question here is this? If the pup passes the so called tests does that increase the chance of it being a good street/SAR/bomb dog or is it really 50/50 ? I know experience goes a long way here so any help will be great! Also any techniques that you use that would help greatly...........Thanks

First of all you want to make sure the pup is genetically correct for the work. Secondly, by passing the working puppy tests, that hopefully will connect you with a pup who has the right working attitude and shows you that is grip is full and calm and he might have good hunt drive and so on..........but these things are only the beginning. Now, the training and the handling HAVE TO BE CORRECT, or the puppy will get screwed up, even though he was genetcially correct for the work.

Thanks for your response.....The pup that I have started to handle now is genetically sound and passed all the tests as a 2 month old pup, however over the last month the tests that I had given him before: he is not responding the same now. Ex: Opening umbrella in front of pup.....He never backed away and know he backs away. Have you had any pups that went through a stage and came back to where they initially where? Pup has great drive and good nerves and bright as a candle.

When inital puppy test's are done, the pup's brain has nothing really to tell it what is bad. SO if your umbrella test did not phase it when you did it at the kennel, he probably didn't know what it was. Butif the dog is know at your house , he might have seen a door slam or a chair fall or other "explosive/quick" movements that scared him. It is natural at some point for a dog to be unsure of something, but how fast he recovers or handles the unsurity is what makes a great dog. At his age take it slow with him, I'm sure you like most of us when we get a new pup, we just want to start training and making him into an adult. That takes time, and depending on your lines he could mature from like 12-36 months. You have a long time to let him enjoy being a puppy. The obedience and bite work will fall into place very quickly if you take it slow with him and build a bind and work on his foundation skills. Order some of Ed's videos on building drive, and bite work for puppies. If your goig to do detection work on his sent work. Not sure who ATU is I know Blakwater and Cannopy International Security Agencies usually buy there dogs all ready trained. It will be a while before your dog is fieldable. So maybe have your company look into buying a trained dog for you. And them raise your other dog and work on it's training.
Some tests I have seen, place him behind a fence not too long, but is open on both ends, you stay on the other side and call him, see if he can figure out how to around the fence.
Place some food under a cup (maybe havce holes in it) see if he figures it out quick. Not sure if any of these will tell you much. I thin you can tell more by watching the litter if you have that chance. See the dogs interact, that can tell you tons. If you dig around there are lots of test's on line in other peoples web pages.


Good Luck with your training...Chet

Two well known programs have thier own breeding program. Carefully monitored, they still get about a 50/50 return for the type of dog they need. Some groups may be a bit higher, and some a bit lower, but all in all, they still hit about 50%. While it's nice to be able to raise a pup and then place it into service, and I have been lucky on a couple of occasions, I still think it's a crap shoot. Obtaining a dog from a good background does increase the odds, but all-in-all your best bet is still to obtain an adult.

DFrost

I had a discussion with an old friend a while back about this subject. He is involved in the experimental breeding program for DOD.
The studies he has done so far show that puppy testing is a total crap shoot. Testing at 7 months provides a 50% washout rate at that time and an additional 10% - 20% washout beyond that.
This is pretty consistant with what is seen by the breeding program in Northrhine-Westfalia among their malinois crosses as well.
There have been a couple of programs that have done better than that with young puppy testing. These programs were not for police service type dogs and the tests were performed by the same person for many years, possibly providing insight into the production from that lineage that goes beyond simple tests???
My advice to people who are very serious about getting a working dog and rearing it themselves is simple. Know the quality of the parents directly...not by pedigree but by their individual character...and be very prepared to dump the dog by no later than 8-9 months while you can still find it a good home for life.
Spend your time doing drive development in many locations and don't worry about dog training so much.

Kevin, were those tests at seven months by chance done with dogs which had been through a careful puppy conditioning rigmarole? Curious about what kind of difference that would make in the percentages for well-bred pups. Thanks for any info.

Originally posted by Wayne Stromberg:
Kevin, were those tests at seven months by chance done with dogs which had been through a careful puppy conditioning rigmarole? Curious about what kind of difference that would make in the percentages for well-bred pups. Thanks for any info. The german program has experienced people taking the pups, the DOD program I am not sure about but it seemed that they were at least coached in proper rearing.

Wayne,

The puppies were conditioned and socialized according to a specific protocol, established by a behaviorist. A major university is doing a similar program, and while they claim there results are a little better, it's still not much more than 50/50 shot.

DFrost

Thanks for the feedback ......So what I am understanding is that given all the tests in this planet there is no perfect or near perfect formula for testing at an early age (2-6 months). One of my friends in special ops picked a puppy 2 months old that reacted like crap initially to all his tests except one ( dominating his syblings to get food) and at four months the pup was passing them all perfect.....needless to say he is a dual duty dog now working the streets. Ill let him be a pup and build drive and focus for a while ......