Ok, so I've got my little psychopath ordered and will recieve him in two months. My very first Mal. I'm a fairly experienced trainer and handler of GSD's ( I own a *very* high drive GSD as some board members can attest to ) and Rott's.
What changes or additions to a normal training regime will be needed for training a Mal? I train Obd 4-5 times weekly for 10-15 mins at a time. I track 5 times weekly. I work in protection once weekly. Suggestions from the well-informed peanut gallery?

Well Im sure there are some people on this board that are very knowledgeable in Mals but Im first to post. I work with lots of Mals from 2 different police depts and from my experience I find myself fixing problems all due to hectic nerves.This is because Im sure that paying special attention in the initial training or puppy raising this was not something that was considered.I would suggest that if I was getting a Mal pup, counter acting those nerves would be something I would pay special attention too and I know you know the value of that.

Having experience with both breeds I think the best way to describe the differences is with an analogy.

Malinois are like absorbent sponges. They have thinner nerves and are a little more sensitive to their environment and handler as they mature. Their drive is excellent, their aggression is right there all the time. They are great working dogs, working monsters really.

So you need to work against the nerves with calm handling and focus work, you need to make fewer mistakes in protection training, and you don't have to worry so much with "drive building". To much prey conditioning and too much drive work early on will create problems. They are very easy to overwork in prey development. You are always walking a fine line as you bring them along in different drives.

The GSD, IN COMPARISON, is about as absorbent as a rock. The nerves are bomb proof, they are more resilient to mistakes, and are more handler hard.

You have a larger margin for error in protection training and prey development. You work a GSD so you know what that's like.

I like good GSDs better, they are more forgiving, can handle more stress, are less flighty, and just better all round.

Thats from living with my Belgian line Mals and my Dutch half breed over the last year and comparing them to my GSDs.

All I can say is you’re in for a ride

Mals are nothing like Gsd puppies, they are puppies from hell, they don’t sleep for longer than 30 min, then they are off running, jumping, biting they are like hyperactive children.

If you can train a Gsd, you can train a Mal, how do I know this, I had Zero mals and about 32 gsd’s and 3 rotties, so I decided to take a leap.

Today I have 4, 6 month olds, one 3 month old and 3 over a year the oldest 3 years.

What i experienced is good nerves, good drive but not very human dependant, they tend to do their own thing, compared to my GSD’s who will stay close. But every dog has his own personality so it’s dangerous to brand them, the donations we got and returned were useless, very nervous and edgy.

So once again, socialisation, stimulation and affection – that’s the only advice I will give.

Well, the activity level is definitely much more than a GSD!! One of these little buggers was not even born all the way (head and front legs out only) and he was nursing...they walked better and more at birth than GSD pups do at 3 weeks old...no kidding. I have had dozens of litters over the last 20 years, all working line Dobermann or GSD. I thought the Dobermanns were something..I have a feeling I will be shredded as soon as they get their teeth.

I don't know why many people say that Mals want to do their own thing more than GSDs.. I do think it' an individual thing from dog to dog but I will say EVERY malinois that I know wants to be on the handlers lap if at all possible. They are very affectionate but busy..

Of all the different breeds I have trained (and I have trained a lot) GSD, Dobe, Tervuren, Lab, Golden, Portugese Water dog, etc... I do think you walk a finer line and need a little more finesse with a Mal. At least in my experience the line between a fair and unfair correction for a Mal is very thin and you really need to pay attention and read your dog. (or you may get bit!)

Will, just do the Flinks stuff and PREY only (sorry VC, I disagree with what you say about that).Ask Bertrand from Joefarm, he said if you don't bring the prey out early the drives will be sleepy and I agree..Why do you think so many Mal breeders are imprinting their litters from 4 or 5 weeks old??..Joefarm, Ot Vitosha, etc.. These bloodlines are loaded with defense and aggression and for the first year to year and a half Prey, prey, prey...oh yeah, and buy extra bandaids... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mals are for sure unique in their out of the box, here I am and try and alter my Ego attitude. Mals are no different than other real working breeds. The trick is understanding the line, lines or breed cross that is behind your new dog.

Understanding the nerves and how far they cannot be twisted is very important.Too many newbies take what comes very natural to a mal and make the mistake of thinking they trained the dog to do whatever at a very young age. It will seem almost to easy and free. Thus missing out on really learning to interact with your dog.

Pedigrees can be misleading. Perhaps giving the new comer to mals a false direction to move toward based on a ped of great past dogs.

Point being, you have to look hard at your dog as it matures and make genetic based training decisions based on your own experience with Malinois.

If you are a newbie owner as you say then you must align yourself with someone with as much experience with the breed as you can. There will be quite a few who say they have that experience but take my word for it. They do not in the big picture.


A very good example is that my Deux Pottois stuff is vastly different than my Cibo based dogs and then again different with those line crosses.

I know a lot of people who are great dog folk with a long history of GSD ownership who cannot cope with a mal in the house. Mals push every button they find.

Last, get used to being punched in the face by your male butting it melon into yours will it says *I LOVE YOU* each day when it greets you for the first.

Best of Luck with the Pup

Jerry

I agree that pedigrees can be misleading, I think I have seen this VERY much in the GSD...All you can do is research pedigrees and see as many progeny from the bloodlines that you choose and cross your fingers if you are buying a pup... We all know puppies are a crapshoot but it is the way I prefer to deal with dogs. I have bought young adults in the past and never really bonded with them like I do with a pup I raise.

since Will wants to do sport training (with a real edge to it)I think he needs to remember (like Jerry points out) that sometimes the Mals learn so fast you forget they are still babies and push them faster than you should. I don't see a problem with keeping the dog in prey and observing his behavior at home, for suspicion, terrritorial aggression, etc...with a "knowledgeable" helper the real stuff can be brought out later in the work as long as it's in there to start with.

The head butt comment reminded me... I have gotten my one and only black eye from the mother of this litter. She loves to leap from wherever she is and assumes I will catch her (a game we played when she was little) Problem is, she chooses to play this game at the most inopportune times... and if my hands are full or I am not paying attention I have a face full of Malinois..

Sounds funny now... but OUCH

Ok,
So no shots of double expresso for the puppy, got it!
< Will prepares to switch his new dog to decaf....>
And actually, I have *never* caught my current dog Fetz asleep. I'm sure he must sleep sometime, but you can't prove it by me...

Being one of the daring Mal people on a mostly GSD BB. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .Mals by breed are just like any other. You have the good the bad and the REALLY bad.

As many Mals tend to have more "surface" drive when they are young I think people tend to rush training. I've seem pics of Mal pups at 5 months old doing long sends and high suit bites. NOT that imprinting is wrong, or that if kept as a game it will become a problem, you just have to remember under all the external drive is the brain and maturity of a 5 month old pup.

Like Kevin stated in a post, getting out and socializing is key. Not letting everyone fawn all over them and baby them, but get out and show them the world. Far too many dogs from all breeds have been sheltered from crate to field. They work great on the field but have no nerve for the world outside the mowed training area. The more correct socializing you do the better your pup can develop.

The breed in many circles has a BAD rep. One of our State run K-9 schools will not allow Mals or Dutchies into the class. They think they are too aggressive, unstable and handler hard. While there are some Mals that fit this, we all know GSDs that do as well.

Unfortunately people think if they get a Mal, there will be no health problems or temperament issues like in a GSD...WRONG! Mals have their own set of health issues and plenty of temperament issues as well. The other issue as some other poster wrote about nervy hectic bites. Again temperament and probably rushed training in foundation work.

If you can't get it done with a good GSD, you won't get it done with a good Mal. It's harder and harder to find GOOD Mals just as it is to find GOOD GSDs. Even the unpapered, ugly (said with much love of course) Dutch line dogs are getting harder to find good ones.

In this country, soooooo many people are breeding them that I can only imagine that the genepool will be more polluted with crappy dogs and the American Malinois will be just as the American GSD. the only problem is that most of the crap American Mals still have enough crappy drive to bite and the American GSD has not. Note I did not say bite well, or for the right reason, just bite.

THIS IS NOT a stab at American who have PROVEN themselves over time breeding GOOD, HIGH QUALITY Mals!!! It is more to the "weekend warrior" breeder who thinks Mals are the lunch ticket to getting a foot in the door of working dogs.

Hehehe...I think Brett's dog and Cindy's bitch have proven themselves to be "good, high quality Mals"! My usual goal is to have a working dog out of patrol dog lines, as I still tend to train like a LEO, despite retirement.
My current GSD was an exception to the rule, but after watching Todd Gaster work Dar at a Flinks seminar, I *had* to have one of those pups. I would have been thrilled to have a dog like this assigned to me as a K-9 partner. I am totally happy with that breeding, although I wish that getting papers on Czech imports wasn't so time consuming <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />