Hi Everybody!! This is my first post to the board even though I have been reading the topics for awhile!! I am a new Mal owner and I need some help...I am new to Mals, I am not completly inexperienced with training/behavior but I am by no means an expert...

I have a 7 mo old Mal that I purchased when he was 13 weeks old...from the best of my knowledge he comes from great working lines (which is what I wanted)...I knew he would be a challege but I wanted a dog that would be high energy and high drive...His father is titled in American Street Ring and his mother is titled in Shutz...I don't know alot about either sport - I am still learning...both seem to be really great working dogs...and although the father is a lot more friendly and sociable than his mother both are great around other people and dogs...

Here is my "problem" - I work for my County's Sheriff Office and I got a lot of advise from the K-9 handlers there...some of it I am pretty confused about...

I was told that if I wanted a good "working" dog to raise him outside in a kennel only letting him out for work - that this would allow him to focus on drive and make for a better working dog...that is what I started doing even though I wasn't completly crazy about the idea...the problem is now I feel like he is completly unsocialized...he barks at strangers and even the neighbors...I decided to take him to the pet store to see how he would do...it was hit and miss...with some people he was great with some he acted like he wanted to tear them apart...I am scared that I have messed him up by not socializing him properly...I would like to know how to tell if it is a socialization problem, which I am assuming with some work could be fixed, or weak nerves, which I am assuming cannot be fixed...also, is it really not possible to have a good working dog that is also a good companion dog - I'd really like to have the best of both worlds <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have noticed when we have company - he eventually settles down and will take a treat from their hand...I also keep him on leash or in his crate when we have visitors.

By the way, I do not care if he wags his tail at every person he meets - I don't really like the idea of strangers touching my dog anyway...but I don't like the thought of him wanting to eat them for dinner either...

oh yea...he is doing great at obediance (still on-leash at this point) and he is very smart...sometimes I think he is smarter than me... :rolleyes:

Thanks!!

I don't see why a socialized dog can't also be a working dog. And I can definitely see how an UN-socialized one can be a problem when 'working'.

What exactly do you plan to do with this pup? Schutzund? K-9? I'm guessing not a family pet because you will have trouble having friends and relatives over (or going to their home) with an unsocialized dog.

I'm sure the owners/trainers of other Malinois will have more specific help for you, I have a working line GSD and she does fine in pretty much all circumstances at this point (almost 9 months).

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because you will have trouble having friends and relatives over (or going to their home) with an unsocialized dog.

So is it too late?? that's what i am trying to figure out...I'd like both...i am really afraid i followed some not so great advise...

As far as what dicipline...i am not 100% sure at this point...his parents are into bite work - which is what I started his foundations in...he seems to have a good solid bite and he is bursting with drive...I am thinking about joining the ASR club that the breeder is starting up...mostly I wanted a good, smart dog with high drive...and a "well-rounded" personality...like his father...

Right now I am keeping my options open by working mostly on obedience and keeping his drive high...

Can't say it's too late completely, but you did miss some earlier stages that socialization could be started if you do want more of a dog that can go anywhere do anything (and you not have to keep a sharp eye on them 100% of the time).

Here are some sites you may want to take a look at to give you some ideas:

Good article on temperment AND socialization: http://www.nwk9.com/early_life_management01.htm

http://www.nwk9.com/dehasse_pupdev.htm this site is a bit long and technical, but has good information.

http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-Puppy.htm#soc lists a bunch of different sites.

Thanks...I'll take a good look at these...

I have to say...we went trick-or-treating tonight and he did really well...we stayed focused on me even with all the ghost and goblins around...he even came face-to-face with a cat (a real one) and after a little sniff of curiosity he walked back to my side and sat...

I was very proud of him... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you had a great night with him AND that if you are able to take him out for similiar experiences he will only become more confident and secure, and more used to looking up to you for guidance rather than instantly making decisions on his own (that may be based more on fear).

Read every thing you can, and really have a goal for how social you want him to become for the LIFE you want to lead with him. A dog that is meant to stay home and in the yard it's entire life obviously needs alot less skills/experiences of 'the real world' than one that is going to be a search and rescue dog (that's just an example).

Jen,

You can crate train you’re dog in the house and still have an outstanding working dog. I made the same mistake of taking advise from my departments K9 handlers about things in protection training as well. I would take him to different pet stores in your area and give a light verbal NO when he acts aggressive to strangers. Have treats ready to give to people coming up to him and have them give the pup a treat. There is a good chance that if you really take him out everyday during the week to a new place with people he will adjust. There is nothing wrong with a little suspicion of strangers, but you would like to a see a puppy that young very friendly and confident with every situation.

Jen,
"I was told that if I wanted a good "working" dog to raise him outside in a kennel only letting him out for work - that this would allow him to focus on drive and make for a better working dog..."

Puppies/dogs need socialization, period. There is nothing wrong with kennel and crate time, this is also valuable; but keeping a 8 week - 8 month old pup in a crate and kennel all the time except for 'work' time is not good. The reason it is not good is that seeing different people, places and things are critical to the mental stability of a dog.
The people that gave you this advice either failed to explain the details or don't know what it takes to raise a solid, working pup. It sounds like you have a good pup, if thigs generally go well on social outings. Keep up the positive socialization. Take your pup everywhere you can with you. You don't have to let people give treats or love on your dog or even touch him/her, but the pup needs to get out and experience the sights, sounds and scents of the world. The good thing is, is that you dog is still young and, from what you have described, has the genetics to handle and recover from situations.
Malinois in general are extremely perceptive dogs. They are very aware of things that go on around them, so varied, positive experience socialization is very important. Also remember, all good things come from you, so if your pup is having trouble with certain things, give him just enough help to get through it to build the dogs confidence. If he/she gets very distracted or is barking inappropriately, get his attention back on you, not through correction, but through a toy and/or moving away from the distraction, so the distraction becomes less important.
I also have a 7 month old Mal that I am raising for SchH, so I can relate to much of what you're going through. I hope this helps and Good Luck!

Thanks Everyone!!

I am glad I found this board...I am sure that I have an exciting although challenging road ahead and I will need all the help I can get!!!

I think tomorrow we are going to the pet store and the park (he is also my running buddy...although I run out of energy way before he does... :rolleyes: )

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

While socializing is important you might want to think twice about pet stores. Many people bring dogs to places like the large pet supply stores when the dogs have no business being around people or other dogs. Some people also bring children to those stores who have no business being around other people or dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . My point is just that you're bring your dog into a situation where you have very little control. When you brought your dog trick-or-treating you could better control how close you were to other people or other animals. At a pet store you may experience children running up in your dog's face, other dogs going after him, etc. Taking him for walks in more open areas can allow you to see things well in advance that may surprise your dog or make him feel threatened. At the same time he may react more calmly if unfamiliar people or things aren't approaching him in a confined space.