AZ Trooper,

No you aren't alone. I have long believed that any dog used for breeding should have some independant certification of its conformation and should demonstrate that it can serve in the function it was intended (with in some limits{fighting dogs}). The conformation people have made this type of certification way to difficult, and both the conformation and working people spend too much time alienating each other. If everybody would spend more time encouraging participation in all dog sports the quality of dogs and owners would improve significantly. Unfortunately once people decide they can be the "best" they have to attempt to run down everybody else participating.

I agree with Richard.I have(at least most of the time)belive good working lines. German or american working lines with alittle show lines thrown in, make for the best alround dog.Some good enough for the show ring,some good enough for bit work or ob.but most of all alot of them with great temperments.(not to hard and not to soft)I have learned alot from this board some I disagree and some I agree.But we all should get along,to make the best all around GSD there is.Some(alot maybe)Will not agree with me in crossing working with the show lines but thats ok.Its just my opinion and everyone has one.pnpgsd <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

There are some decent show line dogs. For me, the concern is that recessive "spooky" gene that they all seem to carry.

Here we go again.

The SV is a failing organization IMO. They are failing US the working dog people. They are slipping into the same problem that the AKC has. The dogs are taking a turn away from the original standard in their conformation shows, and conformation is becoming more important than work. Also, with the way that the Schutzhund trials are going, even with a SchHIII dog you have no idea what kind of working prospect you are getting. What ever happened to the 1-10 rating system? It is all just pretty weak if you ask me. About 100x better than the AKC, but still not what it should be. That brings me to my point, the German Show Lines are pretty weak and most will only get weaker. I also think that they are funny looking. More so every year. But, if you think THAT is good conformation then breeding working and German show lines is pretty good. You will always get a bunch of medium dogs with these breedings for every one, very rare, good one. I think one would be better off searching around to find a working line dog that had good confirmation (whatever that means?) and breeding to other similar dogs. There are working lines out there that look pretty good.

They don't have those slope butts either. U-G-L-Y, ugly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Richard, in advance, don't start with me I don't want to see a 97 post thread here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

VanCamp-

What are the differences, if any, between German and American show lines?
I've heard working breeders recommend German show lines to people who may not be capable of handling their dogs.

Hey are you Dutch?!LOL Me too.

Van Camp your comments on the sloping butt,pose a question,when did this start.
The GSDs I was brought up with in the forties and fifties were never like this,they were strong erect dogs like the originals,why does someone always want to change what the original creator bred,its happening to all the breeds.
Paul

After failed experimentation with German show lines, I finally found a small, reputable kennel that breeds working dogs that also have good conformation.
http://www.kennelseeblick.com

This kennel has... what IMHO may be among the best brood bitches in the nation... Anna vd RaderBrucke. In additon to being tough as nails, at 5 years of age (after 2 litters) she just received an OFA excellent!

And Dave, if you have not checked out his web site lately Anna had pups in January. I have had a chance to see this dog in person and she is wonderful. Everything you could ask for!!!!

are doing. Have you all seen Von Emsbogen? there are several examples of BSP top 10s with V rated conformation. Maybe the riddle of the ages is this; how does one with relative consistency, produce SG ro better rated dogs with the potential to perform as service dogs?

Oooooooo. . . Seems that I made a few people mad by trashing the SV. I lost a star LOL Trooper was that YOU? Jerk. . .LOL

Tim, The huge difference between the American Show lines and the German Show lines is that the Germans still work their dogs. To register and breed in the SV you must have a working title HGH or SchH. That makes the dogs hella better than the AKC dogs. I'm gonna stick by my earlier comments though, I think the SV is going down hill fast and MOST of the German Show lines are medium crap. Spooky is right.

I am Dutch/German and Czech, my grandfather was actually mostly Czech. He was born and raised in Praha, Czechoslovakia. At the conlusion of WWII he, along with 3,000,000 other German speaking Czechs, were exiled from the country. He moved in with family in West Germany, and then imigrated to the US from Holland(where his grandfather was from). He speaks Czech as his first language. We consider ourselves basically Heinz 57 American though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I want a Dutch Shepherd, if that gets me close enough? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />