Hey folks,
I hear...or have heard it said that it's hard to find a good working GSD these days. I don't know if that's true, but does that mean that there was a time when it was "easy" to find a good one?...and when exactly was that time?

And so if I did happen to go to a decent working breeder....and given that I'm one of the people who has such suspicion that modern working dogs are lacking 'the stuff' .....what "stuff" is missing from these working GSDs today?

I am a naive observer, but when I have watched schutzhund...and even when I watch training methods which appear to be ill-timed or whatever....heck, regardless of the training, some of the dogs look like they've got plenty of good stuff and seem to have the potential to perform whatever is given them. Lots of power, take hard corrections in stride (apparently), border collie fast, and happy! If anything, these dogs looked to have more 'stuff' than their owners could handle!

So what's missing in these GSDs? and is it that darn hard to find a good one?

Kelton,

I think you can find a good Shepherd, but it will take some research. What is missing in the modern day Shepherd? I believe the Shepherd is missing some hardness and fight drive. Schutzhund is less of a test then it was years ago. With the new rules for 2004, the SV is taking away the hardest bite-attack out of blind and replacing it with a run away. Going to the padded stick years ago instead of the reed stick. These little things are making it easier for softer dogs to title and Koer. then be bred.

Just my thoughts,
Brad

I caught my dog using my computer last week. He was on dog forum, talking about hard it was to find good handlers.

THAT was a good one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

FYI, I'm not actually looking for a dog at the moment. A few years ago, I was looking for a dog, but then I went back to school and didn't have the time to devote to an active dog.

During my hunt, though, it was often said that it was getting harder and harder to find a solid working GSD....as if it were much easier in the past.

I had this sneaking suspicion that, "yes, it might require some homework to find a good GSD, but were good dogs easier to find in the 1930's?...and by what account are we so sure they were 'better' back then?"

People have fond memories of the past. The dogs may be different today than 50 years, or 20 years ago, but there are plenty of good dogs at 8 weeks old. They may not be so good at 1 year, but that has more to do with the owner than genetics.

It's strange how good trainers don't have much of a problem finding good dogs, and poor trainers do have such a problem.

All dogs have issues. Schutzhund has become tougher and tougher (well until lately) so these problems become more obivious. The control aspect of the sport has become tougher and tougher. The hardness of the sport has eased up over the years.

It you want a hard as nails dog, there are plenty out there. If you want a sport dog there are pleant good ones out there. But each dog is in a large part what the owner makes it, or I should say what the owner doesn't take away from it.

I'm convinced of that too Orv. It is strange how the best handlers seem to always have the best luck. My dogs' dam's owner has worked several different dogs in past few yrs, of different breeds, and different bloodlines. And every single dog she handles turns out to be exceptional. Some say she just has a nice dog, or that she's lucky, but I think it's her handling.

Originally posted by Orv Story:

It's strange how good trainers don't have much of a problem finding good dogs, and poor trainers do have such a problem.
This is true in part. I can say first hand and not just looking for dogs with sport in mind, that it is harder to locate a good all around GSD. Sure they are out there, but overall I do not think that they are in the numbers that they were, say 15 yrs ago. Talking with German brokers, they have told me that when locating dogs they now have to look at twice the amount that they did even 10 yrs ago to find one super nice dog. Overall it is harder to find canidates for Police work, and this does not include the ones that will wash out while training. If you have the cash, sure and most great sport folks do, you can find a dog without alot of trouble, but the sad fact I think is that GSD that are capable of work, in most disiplines are on the decline, and coupled with the Euro, it has driven the price high in alot of cases. I do agree that the handlers have alot to do with how good a dog turns out.

Hi
i agree with some things which said already .
But in my expierence i see things happen like people want it all , now and cheap.
I get several emails some weeks from people looking for a dog but to some no matter what you offer there s always something to complain about.
One thing which also shows up is that for a good dog people dont want to pay the money it is worth.

Then i think about one episode of Sabrina the teen witch.
Her aunt , adult witches , had a magic pastry for baking the Perfect Man and after they bake the right ,adding a little bit of this or that flavour , for each the living example wasnt that what they needed and they still werent satisfyed.
So the baked ones went in the garbage.
With finding good a dog, yeah that might be a challenge but possible, with finding the right handler who s even able to describe his real needs admitting his real personal abilitys and where the wish fits to the money which is in the pocket it s somedays more a time wasting game.
But i keep up the good thoughts though , man+ dogwise <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
have a good time
Jutta

In my opinion, German Shepherd Dogs nowadays are split into two clear groups; working lines and show lines.
The show people, i'm sure with good intent and at a time when GSD bites were high on the media's hot list, were intent on 'breeding out' the GSD's natural suspicion and hardness. This of course meant that judges, who only judge looks and the breed standard were able to get close to dog without being nailed or even growled at. It also meant that the amount of dogs biting postmen, children and other allegedly innocent victims also dropped.
What increased was the number of crime victims who were mugged or burgled while their 43kg GSD stood by and watched. (No doubt with an outraged expression on it's face!)
Here in England, where we are closer to Germany, Belgium, Holland etc, are also finding that it's diffucult to obtain large numbers of good working GSD, the ones that Von Stephanitz would approve of, even if he couldn't recognise these days.
However, there are still good GSD's out there and will the correct nurturing and breeding, I hope their numbers will once again rise. What would be a catastrophe would be in the breed was fully replaced in the hearts and minds of enthusiasts in favour of the Belgian Malinois, for example.
I welcome your responses my friends,
Gary...