I am looking at a purchasing a puppy from a breeder in San Diego, CA Grunenfeld Kennels http://www.4germenshep.com, does anyone have anything good or bad to say about them? thanks.

the link doesn't work

I had trouble with the link also, but after playing around with it for a sec. I got it to work, Try this:

http://www.4germanshep.com

I wouldn't call those working line German Shepherds.

If you are looking for a working dog that would not be the first kennel on my list to purchase a pup from.

Sorry about the incorrect link, thanks Aren for the correction. Robert, if they are not working lines then what constitutes a working line? Thanks for your input.

What constitutes a working line is more complicated than I'm willing to get into, so to make it simple.

There are two bloodlines of GSDs that come over from Europe, and then there are bloodlines for American type GSDS.


The American type are totally worthless. . .utterly and completely.


In Europe there are showline dogs and working line dogs. The showline dogs are primarily bred for conformation. . .and the ability to GET working titles because the German GSD organization requires working titles to breed a dog.

The working bloodlines are primarily bred to be the best working dogs possible and to kick butt in Schutzhund, be GOOD police dogs, have the best working temperaments possible, etc.


The showline dogs do not often produce good working dogs. The dogs being bred at that kennel are mostly showline dogs from what I saw.


The parents of most of the litters that I looked at were not even titled in working disciplines, that isn't the best indication of potential working ability for the pups, if the parents are unproven.

...... And I would say there are two schools within in the working lines -- extreme dogs bred only for sport and dogs bred to be balanced working dogs that can actually live in your home -- not to mention the variations between West German, DDR and Czech.

Now to sit back and let the sparks fly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll man the fire extinguisher!

Here's a quick rule of thumb. You can only expect to get a pup that, at best, is capable of doing what the breeder does with their dogs. There are some exceptions, but for a newbie they are hard enough to find that you don't need to worry about them. This means that if the breeder doesn't title their dogs and just has nice pets, then the MOST you can hope for is a nice pet. At worst you will end up with a dog like mine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

This also means that if you buy from a show line breeder that sends their dogs to a mystical "trainer" somewhere that takes them from pet to SchH titled it means that it will take a seasoned professional to train any pup that you would get as well. Passing is a best case scenario for these dogs, and if the breeder isn't feeling any effects of the poor trainability (short of them producing a bunch of flunkers that can't even pass on a home field while no one watches) then they aren't likely to breed for trainability when they could breed for show ribbons and empty heads instead (stupid dogs are easier to live with because they can't figure out how to get into anything). Not EVERY show line dog has a box of rocks between their ears, but if you want to have fun training a dog then I wouldn't suggest showlines. Auster is known as the "black and blonde" around here (no offense meant to natural blondes).

I know that there are exceptions and show line breeders will go on and on about a few exceptions, but the sad truth is that they never breed to these few dogs that can actually DO something, so it's nothing more than a marketing gimmick IMO. The breeders with showlines with any sort of ability usually don't show, which makes them virtually impossible for a newbie to find. I know my opinion is not popular, but after having fallen for the sales pitch I just want to let others know what they might just be getting into.

Very expensive dogs for the pedigree offered. *WAY* out of line, in my opinion.

These are show line dogs, not working line dogs. You'll get looks, not working ability - so know which factor is more important to you.

I always worry when kennels list their affiliation with the German Shepherd Dog Club of America - that's always a warning sign if you're looking for a working dog. Or ethics. Or honesty.

Number of titles sounds good in theory - but I've seen judges in GSDCA/WDA trials give away titles to obviously non-qualified dogs that were owned or bred by other judges. So unless you see the dogs actually work, sadly, the titles don't always mean much. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />