While browsing another forum, I saw a post regarding prong collars, a poster said that she personally knew of three dogs that had died from the use of a prong. Now, being a pathologist, I find that story to ring completely false, however, it's a big country, but has ANYONE else here ever heard of it happening? And it had been pointed out to the poster that the prong could have been altered with sharpened prongs and a lousy fit, but the poster insisted that they were ordinary pets with regular prong collars and their tracheas had been punctured. So before I completely go off <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> , I'd like to make sure of the unlikelyhood of the scenario by polling the good and sensible folks on this board <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .

I have never seen or heard of such a thing, but I have seen a few infections from puncture wounds on dogs where the prong collar was not put on or used properly(and in one case, never taken off!).

I am sure they were arguing something to the extent of a flat collar or choke being safer, but dogs die in those all the time too.

:rolleyes:

Deanna, I've even seen an embedded prong collar, wasn't pretty, but the dog certainly survived. And yes, the poster was pro Halti/Gentle Leader, which I don't have a problem with, but when you proclaim to be a trainer, as the poster did, you should know better than to denigrate a training tool with an inflammatory statement :rolleyes: .

Laura,

I agree with Deanna fully. Never heard of "tracheas had been punctured" unless there are alterations to the prong or ill fitting prongs by nin-com-poops <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wonder why they never mentioned of collapsing tracheas by using choke chains.....lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And now the animal rights "activists" are calling choke collars "strangulation" collars.....sheesh, gimme a break! :rolleyes:

Laura, I know the post your speaking of. I find it funny how she trains with a halti/gentle leader and then jumps right away to an e-collar if the halti doesn't work. Talk about going from one extreme to the other.

She says she's been training for 30 years?? Different strokes for different dogs, but jumping from a halti to e-collar?? Yeesh!

I'm certainly no physiologist, however, it seems to me that the halti would exert more force on the neck and concussion more likely from an improper halti technique than with a pinch collar. I can see loss of consiousness from a choke collar long before the same with a pinch collar if dogs have the brachial plexus origin in a simialar place along the neck as do humans. Pinch, Halti, Choke, whatever the tool, the operator has to be more intelligent than the nylon or steel used to comprise any of the aforementioned.

As much as I advocate the use of Leerberg videos for education, I believe it even more important to attend a Leerberg or equitable workshop, particularly when a corrective tool and technique are examined. Improper application of any dog trainning equipment can cause irreversible damage, either physically, psychologically or both.

In essense, people need to know what the hell they are doing before applying ANY amount of force on an other living being. Knowing the limits of your knowledge, experience, equipment, means, methods and goals are essential to any kind of training. It is incummbent upon the knowledgeable to advise and demonstrate correct theory and practice before allowing someone seeking advice to progress. I am not, nor do I profess to be omnipotent but every member of this board cares enough abouth their respective animals to seek advice. Mistakes are going to made but if we allow those mistakes ( mis applications if you will) to continue at the hands of the inexperienced, we are allowing mistreatment to perpetuate. I do not recommend the purchase of a pinch collar or corrective techniques to anyone who askes me for help until I have the opportunity to see the dog and demonstrate the proper application of any tool at hand ( if I have experience with that tool).

That's how most of these situations come to light; discussion forums are contacted by those who who post things to the affect of " this what I did, why is my dog dead, wetting itself on appraoch, snapping at me" or any other countless manifestations of being scared to death of its handler.

Forgive the preaching, I have seen some really dumb shit these last few months by people who read books and thought they knew what they were doing. Thus endeth the sermon.

Gordo

Ed Frawley. . .swearing. . .I know. . .I know, I even said I wouldn't do it anymore. . .but this is


BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!


I would put BIG money on a bet that no dog ANYWHERE ANYTIME has been killed by a prong collar. . .unless someone wrapped one up with a rock in a sock and beat him with it.


Just for the poster that commented on the e-collar. I personally choose the e-collar now over any other correction device. I go straight from flat collar to e-collar in most cases. I still use prongs for walks and some training issues, but I prefer the e-collar. It is less aversive if used correctly.

Captain Corrector going mainly high tech huh???

What a shame. You and a prong go hand and hand.LOL

Seriously though, a properly used prong will never cause the death of a dog. Sure, leave it on the dog forever, let it get embedded and then we have problems......people who do this should have a prong too small for their neck put on them until it's embedded in their neck.....BASTARDS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Where's Captain Corrector when I need him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ? This woman will not let this go, no matter how many people tell her she can't be right, if anyone cares to jump on the bandwagon, PM me.