I am a new member to this forum. I have a two year old Dogue de bordeaux and a 11 month old Neapolitan Mastiff. I have recently started training them using the prong collar after buying an instructional video and hiring a dog trainer who knows how to use them properly. My question is this- how will I know when i can take the pinch off my dogs? I know that the dogs need to be responding to my verbal commands everytime without them need for correction, but how can I be sure that the dogs will obey me if and when I finally take the collar off them? I have ordered two tabs for them which i will use when i receive them. I suppose it's a question of the dog not becoming collar smart. I am not keen on using the prong as a permanent collar when out with my dogs and cannot afford to but e-collars for them at the minute, but am apprehensive that the dogs will only ober my commands if they are wearing the prong. any advice is gratefully received.

John... you are right about dogs becoming "collar smart" they do! My work dog is a totally different dog when he has a prong collar on vs. a choke. You have to always be prepared for your dog to not do what you want when you want him to do it. If you are not also working your dog with a choke collar at times, start doing that as well so the dog knows that you can still correct him without the prong collar on.

When we began to proof my dog off lead we put 4 collars on him and a long line. We were working on his recall and threw out a kong toy across the training field. He was freed to retrieve the kong and then downed half way. Our next step was to make him think that the long line was not attached to him and create the thought in his head that he no longer had to listen to me as he was not on line and correctable. The simple woking of the snap on the lead was all it took for him to break early... correction. We then put the line on the second collar and removed the prong. We threw the prong down where he could see it. He ignored his recall command.... correction. We worked down all four collars and ended with a long piece of thin wire as a lead before he understood the point of it all..... I can reach out and touch you no matter where you are or what you are doing. No matter what piece of hardware you are wearing or weather or not you are on lead. Your dogs will respect good, fair corrections.

My favorite piece of equipment I use is a thin 4" long piece of wire attached to a plastic handel.... Ed sells them http://leerburg.com/equip.htm#leashes Anyhow.. I use it every time we do off lead obedience with my dog. He thinks he is off lead but I can still reach down and correct him when he makes mistakes. Anticipate your dog not doing what you want him to do and you will save alot of training time.

If you base all your training only on fear of pain, then yes, the dog will learn when you can hurt him and when you can't, and he'll act accordingly. Then you may have to go thru all the trickery that Matt describes. But there are two other things that have a big impact on whether your dog complies off leash - one is your relationship with the dog and the other is whether you use positive reinforcement in your training. If you train with the basic concept of "how can I make my dog WANT to do this", rather than how can I make my dog afraid NOT to do this, then the dog's willingess to comply under all conditions is much higher. My employees don't work for free, and I don't expect my dog to either. That said, I also believe in maintaining a healthy dominance hierarchy in the pack, so that the dogs CARE what the boss wants.