Yes I want to know what the public would expect from a protection dog, we have been debating this point to no conclusion:

a) a on /off switch or a dog that reads the threat and reacts with out a command
b) a dog that is still good with children – or that needs to be put away
c) a hard biter, that can fight or a hold biter or a bark and hold
d) obedience – how much would cut the grade
e) and what else

This is what I expect from mine....

a) Bark when approached by a stranger or strange vehicle drives up to my house.

b) Be quite and sit or lay by my side on command

c) Watch on command

d) Bite hard and fight on command. I figure this will give me time to either run like hell or get my gun.

Does not have to like children(I will put the dog away). As for obedience....better do what I say. Nothing complicated. Sit, laydown, stay, be quite, watch and bite. Of course there are other things my dogs just tend to learn by living in the house with me. Stay close, kennel, wait at doors for me to enter first, go to your bed,etc.

They are allowed to be out when we have company only if there are a few folks and they know and understand dogs. Never in a large group,never if there is alcohol being consumed and never if there are children around. This goes for all of my dogs large or small.

I like a general purpose protection dog.

I want vigilant dog at home, fishing, camping or hiking if I don't see it coming he should take actions, Stop or meet the advancing aggressive suspect aggessively barking.

If I'm bum rushed and I don't see it coming, like when I'm unloading the Jeep, if there is no time to bark I want the guy stopped, tackled and or chewed on. If the guy keeps fighting oh well.

I want a "on" and "off" swicht, if he makes a mistake the guy was playing or now he is like in the above example. Or he was just mad at somebody else he a friend and approaching me to vent about it.

I want the dogs to search the car or house after the wife or family returns home from a trip.

I want the guy to be cornered (bark and hold) and when I say "enough" they both return to my side and sit. In my dreams growling now circling him.

I want them to be safe around kids, but never left with kids unless my family memebers (taking them to pee) and still never left unsupervised for long. If anytime. I wabt them to tolorate or even love kids that are nice, but will scoot away from mean kids. Mals need not apply for this job.

I want a guard dog that I can leave in the front yard on the down guarding my drying lawnmower or my truck started because I'm testing its cooling system. . And I had to go inside to get a tool.
Or repacking the Jeep after camping

I want a dog that will let friends approach if I'm up and around the house. And bark to let me know their outside if I'm sleep.

I want a hard bite that will vary with the intensity of the fight. If it gets rough I want every means available to let him win or hold this guy at bay until I can get a clean one in.

I want a dog that if I'm lost in the woods can find me or my Jeep/Campsite so I won't die out in the woods trying to read a compass by the moon light.


I want a dog Obeidence sharp enough that it seems they understands english even though their German. The sharper the better but routines I can use in the real world.

I'm sure there something else, I'm stumped right now. Oh yeah since I'm dreaming I want a clean Out, so clean that their fighting like crazy and one word "out" they stop and guard the suspect.

A dog that will read a threat and react accordingly,a dog that will work safely to command and a dog that I have total trust in.
I dont want a yes dog that clings to my leg when walking to heal or can do tricks.
And I do not want a bark and hold dog.
Paul

The general public can't handle a true protection dog. They are better off with a dog which will deter threats by a dog's presence. Because if they have a dog that is truely strong enough to protect them, they will not be able to deal with the rank issues.

What they want, and the reality of owning such a dog is two different things.

With my dogs I want the entire cake. I want a dog that just love people, social, but on my command. He must be tolerant, and or love kids, i have too many little cousins. I want a dog that i can send at some one but just as fast call off, even before a bite, mid-flight, don't want to accidentally send dog after grandma <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Bite hard, nock the h*** out of them. And all the good stuff. Does a dog like this exists, yeah, he's right here looking up at me right now, probally seeing if I have any more hot dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . not too many who can do all of this. I know there is most likly alot of this i left out, but hope this anserws your questions

Angela

Thanks all, it boils down to personal perseverance one again, but control is the key word I picked up all the time

Orv - I do not agree, I have my own dog school and I have turned people away – yes, but I am also proud to say that I have put 82 protection dogs in to the hands of Civilians, three have saved their owners lives, not all were trained to the full I must admit but yes some only want obedience other want extra so I cater for the customers need.

The type of training I give is with the handler and it takes 26 weeks, Koehler method, no teats, and I have had no comebacks or accidental bites of children or family – unknowns yes, but it happens even with untrained dogs, so what’s your point and why so hard.

Originally posted by Orv Story:
The general public can't handle a true protection dog. They are better off with a dog which will deter threats by a dog's presence. Because if they have a dog that is truely strong enough to protect them, they will not be able to deal with the rank issues.

While I agree that many people don't have the need for a real protection dog (i.e. a dog that is actually trained to bite) I disagree with the statement that a dog strong enough to protect will be rank. I can think of half a dozen dogs that I know, and 2 of which I trained that are excellent protection dogs with no rank issues. (not sport protection, personal protection)Being a good protection dog and being rank don't necessarily go hand in hand.

The few individual dogs I know working as PPD have really good pack drive and no handler agression at all. I know this is only a small cross section of the dogs out there but to say if a dog is strong enough to protect it will be rank is not accurate.

 Quote:

Originally posted by REINIER Geel:

The type of training I give is with the handler and it takes 26 weeks, Koehler method, no teats, and I have had no comebacks or accidental bites of children or family – unknowns yes, but it happens even with untrained dogs, so what’s your point and why so hard.

OK great. You have 82 out of thousands that went through 26 weeks of training. The general public is not going through 6 weeks of training muchless 26.

Those that have antidotes to my statement, fine they are out there. But I am speaking of the general public at large. They want and expect to buy a dog that will protect them on the fact the dog, "loves the family".

this is just info. i'm not trying to make a point. between my husband and i, we have had roughly 16 german shepherds over the last 22 years. we currently have 5. out of that 16 only 2 would actually "protect" if needed. 1 is still living, but approaching 9 years of age. we have repeatedly warned people against walking into our home without knocking and being "let in". once a visitor is "let in" there is no problem. we have had a few incidents where people have not heeded our warnings. luckily no stitches were required. UPS and mailman have both been advised to leave deliveries on the porch when we aren't here as dogs don't have free access there. these dogs were not formally trained in protection, but one had some sport training....yes, she does know the difference between sport and real danger. like i said, this is just info, but i do have to agree that the percentage of dogs who will actually bite in protection is probably far less than we would like to think.