For a PPD, is it important to teach the bark and hold through prey drive first, and then add defense later, or can I wait until I can train it "for real"?

Obviously I'd love to set the foundations now (he's almost 7 months old) and worry about adding the defense later. HOWEVER, I've got a dog that has shown more defense since 4 months old than most dogs do at maturity. This wouldn't be that bad if it was balance out by really high prey drive, but it's not.

His lack of prey has made it really difficult to get him to bark convincingly for the prey item. I havn't worried about this too much, as the end result I'm looking for in this exercise is a dog that will bark at people, and I've already got that.

Unfortunately the only good trainers I've been able to talk to a whole lot have been sport trainers, who obviously think that a prey-based bark and hold is the only way to teach it.

Basically, can a reliable bark and hold be taught solely in defense? I can't see why not, I just don't know anyone that does it, so I'm looking for any potential pitfalls that I may have overlooked.

FYI, he's been going through bite development since 9 weeks old, so I don't need anyone to send me the link to Ed's "Why training defense before prey is stupid".

Simon,
Ummmmm...why are you training for a "bark & hold" for a ppd?
Just wondering....

Should have clarified: if the dog proves good enough, it will be a working security dog.

While legally there isn't a lot of room for a bark and hold in private security, it's a nice last resort before committing the dog to engaging someone, especially when you're outnumbered. Also, and in reality more importantly, there is a need to demo your dogs to show their control for the sake of selling your company.

Also wanted to add that I'm not talking about having any type of a search prior to the b&h, i.e. running the blinds, simply having the dog firing up on someone at close range, but not biting without aggression or movement from the opponent.

Hi Simon,

search the web for Winklers's articles on obedience in protection phase of schutzhund training. They are schH related but should help you, as it did for me.

I am no expert, but i think that 7 mo dog is too young for that kind of control (someone please correct me if i am wrong). You basically want dog to that is siting or laying next to you and barking his brains out on helper, just waiting for 'bite' command. That is balancing with drive drop and disobedience with dirty bites.

Since we're talking about training a six month old dog for a bark and hold ( :rolleyes: ) , I'm going to let reality drift into this fictional set up and just close the topic.
*sigh*