Since most of us are dog trainers and handlers, we understand that what a dog does is do to being a product of his enviroment and product of his handler. So instead of Banning the breed why don't we ban the handler!! I recommend everyone put this into words and email their governments suggesting BSL. We all know who shouldn't be allowed to own dogs, specifically pits, and rotts. Your punk thug, drug dealing wannabes, Most of the above mentioned have felonies, or soon will, so how about making it another felony and a seperate strike if you will(for states that apply) for being a felon in ownership of a dog on the "FELON BANNED BREED" list. Two or more misdemeanor drug convictions will also put you on the list. Now this maybe pushing it, but there clearly is a problem with the owners of this dogs, not the dogs themselves, so another possibility in addition would be to require them to agree to one unannounced visit by animal control once a year, in which the conditions of the dog are seen IE.. vet checkups, shots, condition of the dog and dogs living quarters. The dog must be registered with the animal control, and if it is not wearing a registered tag, the owner will be fined up to $1000.00 per dog, or may even have the dog confiscated. I would bet that the thugs that think it's cool to own a dog tougher than themselves and who think it's cool to teach the dog to be vicious because it helps their ego's will think twice with all this crap in place, but for a responsible owner this shouldn't be a problem, just a slight inconvience to stop the destruction of their beloved breed.
OH!! and if you sell the dog, papers or not, you must treat it as if you have sold a handgun, a paper trail to the buyer is a must, or if you claim the dog is deceased, a certificate from the vet must be shown, so they don't sell the dog to some random punk. Not sure about this one but a thought, by the time the dog is 9months old you must show that the dog has passed a temperment test, What do others think??

Chris unfortunately the list of dogs joining the "breed banning" and "dangerous dog" is growing. Also, it isn't just the thugs and dealers who are working on getting these dogs banned but more importantly the back yard breeders-they sell to anyone and don't care who it is as long as they have the $$. Then you have the uneducated dog owner, along with the dogs themselves-the ones with the weak nerves, poor temperments or abused, these are the ones that cause the worst damage for the breeds. On the news you generally won't hear about a Pitt or a Rottie that went after it's crazed drug owner, but what you will hear about, and what does ruin the dogs chances of ever being "acceptable" in societies eyes, are the ones that go after babies, small children, or the supposed "minding my own business" citizen.

More has to be done on cracking down on the byb, uneducated owners and the dog with behavorial/temperment problems. After these things get cleaned up I think that the breeds reputation can come back.

I agree, it's the back yard breeders that are causing dogs to be banned; along with the uneducated dog owner (many are our city officials/congress members) that haven't a clue about a dogs temperament but rather state that all "pitts or rotts, etc, are dangerous" and so on. It's very sad and something needs to be changed! I think we should all write and explain that all dogs by 6mos or 1yr should have passed a temp test and all dog owners must alter their dogs unless they're of breeding quality... that's a long stretch and probably will never happen, but never say never! It's what needs to be done. Yes, it'd be nice to ban dogs from being owned by the thugs and all irresponsible dog owners too but how would we ever enforce it?

 Quote:

Yes, it'd be nice to ban dogs from being owned by the thugs and all irresponsible dog owners too but how would we ever enforce it?

It'll damn near enforce itself. If they already have felonies which is why there being banned from owning them, that means, they'll get in trouble, and they'll be search warrants, and police visits, and then there's always the trusty P.O. doing his unannounced visits, Oh, and it's back to jail for you because when I arrived you had a pitbull in your backyard. If your seen walking a pitbull your subject to have to show your licence to own one and that your registration is current and up to date. They'll risk it for their dope and money, but for a dog, nah! The BYB are a problem but you have to start somewhere, and everywhere I'v been the problem that is in the media, which is the first one that needs to be addressed is the dogs that these hoodlums own. Because they do unthinkable crap to these dogs to get them to be mean, and as one punk once told me "buck up". If you can't get all your trash cleared out atleast get half and figure out how to do the rest. What I have suggested is a hassle to the responsible, but if they don't offer something they'll loose their breed.

I don't understand what kind of reduction in bites a breed-specific muzzle order is going to
accomplish...it seems that in the majority of these cases the leash laws and roaming ordinances
are routinely overlooked. And a reoccurring theme
seems to be that the local animal control officers were well aware of the problem. Something is wrong with this picture.

My own opinion is that we should be seriously throwing the book at animal abusers. Big time.
And barring them from ever owning any animal ever
again. I don't know the statistics, but it seems that the correlation between abuse towards animals and subsequent heinous crimes would indicate something more substancial is needed.

I don't like the idea of more legislation because I feel the onus should rest on the individual.
Just because you neighbor's an idiot is no reason for you to be treated as one. Nor should you have to prove that you're not one. If your neighbor's an idiot and mistreats his dog he should be facing
criminal charges. JMHO.

Also, I think LEOs have too much to deal with as it is. To give them the additional job as babysitters as far as BSL is concerned is a slap
in the face. I'm sure I don't want them wasting their time enforcing BSL while real criminal activity is occuring.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. I do think that BYBs aren't helping matters. Or the folks that think a tough dog makes them tough by association. Or the folks that get a Staffie because they have such nice brindle markings.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />You need to ban the owner not the dogs!
I have apbt & two rotts.They are not bad dog just bad owners. This make it
hard on us with good dogs. I just got my apbt back from a
man who stolen it out of a fence in yard. We need to make laws to protect good owner and dogs.Put some of these people in jail that fight dogs.They had to put down 12 dogs
in Lancaster South Carolina for the owner fight them. Its the owner not the dogs.
Randy

I have had about (or heard about first hand) 4 different problem pit bulls in my area - one of which killed a leashed pomeranian on a walk. None of the 4 owners fit the felon, drug dealing, punk category - Just irresponsible a&*%*&es. Two of them are middle aged women.

I have never even seen the so-called thug pit owners. I don't doubt they exist, but there are plenty of, if not more, irresponsible owners that otherwise fall into the "average" citizen category.

My landlord's son is a BYB of pitbulls (not our backtard - he lives with his mom). He is 18 yrs old and doesn't know sqaut. I've have tried talking to him about it, but he doesn't listen. He claims that neutering is against his religion - he thought that was a clever response. He has 2 adult pits that have done serious damage to other dogs.

He has had 2 pits stolen from his house. 1 of them was a pretty nasty animal - I wonder how the theives pulled that off. He couldn't get rid of 2 of the pups from his last litter and kept them. They have scars all over them from their mom and at 4 months they were sweet dogs, but they would get in nasty little fights amongst themselves when they played that had to broken up.

Another from the same litter lives next door to my house, and I have been giving them a lot of advise on training and caring for a dog (mainly just quoting Ed's literature annd DVDs - I lonaed them the DVDs). This dog is really great and he loves to play with my pup - wonderful dog.

I doubt the felon dog ban would have much impact on the problems with owners of these breeds. I can't think of a single sensationalized pit or rottie news story where the owners actually fit into that category.

 Quote:

I doubt the felon dog ban would have much impact on the problems with owners of these breeds. I can't think of a single sensationalized pit or rottie news story where the owners actually fit into that category.

Trust me what you have seen is only about 1/3rd of it. I have done extensive traveling all over the US and international behind pitbulls and I can tell you I am totally right, which is another reason I got out, because it had gotten just that disgusting! It isn't a end all solution, but it would drastically cut down on the types of people that shouldn't own them. And right now the punk thugs and trash are the biggest threat to them. The dumb, idiot, uneducated owners are no good for them either, but the first is an immediate must to be delt with as I know first hand they are the biggest population of owners and that is very unfortunate for such a wonderful dog.

This may sound stupid- If you were to have a dog that is restricted by the bsl laws but said it was a different breed or a mutt -but obviously it is a pure Dobermann (or other)- Who is to say that is isn't the breed you claim? Do they judge just by looks?
I assume if you have a mutt german shepherd dog crossed with a chihuahua (this example was used because the dog would be small and maybe realtive to the gsd only in color? but wouldn't obviously look like a pure restricted gsd...) would the dog still be banned? Maybe these are silly questions but what does everyone else think?
Alison Voore

I work with criminals in my job and conversations have led to talking about dogs. (it connects us all). The thugs and punks love the pitbulls. They also love to breed them. What I have found interesting is they all seem to believe that the way to breed nice, mean pits are to breed brothers and sisters to each other. This comes from different conversations with different crims.These are some of your backyard breeders. Got a crazy pit,,breed it to its littermate,,,yeah that'll work. I dont know how they came up with that. But after being around them you soon realize they dont make very many smart choices in anything. Should they be banned from owning certain breeds,,sure why not. Sounds like a plan.