Ok I'm trying to come to a general understanding of "working ability" and what I've come to find is that everyone has different standards for what they consider make a dog a 'working' dog.

Please break this down for me alittle more. What do you consider good traits in a working dog? Or what makes a dog have 'ideal' working ability?

A lot of fight drive? Intense prey drive? A dog that doesn't duck when you clap your hands? Whats an ideal temperament in your opinion?

Many breeders advertise that they breed for "working ability" but is there really a universal description for this or is it, to each his own?

Can someone please elaborate on this for me? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is from what I've heard, read, and watched on video.

A dog that is a working dog needs defensive drive, prey drive, and fight drive.

The Prey drive is needed because it has to go through this as a puppy so he can train properly, putting them into defensive training would traumatize it. It would result in making a dog with thin nerves.

Defensive drive is always needed, period. The most important, without it you'd have a Lab. Many dogs have prey drive, but they can't do protection because they have no defense drive.

Fight Drive is critical, the reason for this is because it's what separates an average protection dog, to a superior one. Many sport dogs lack this drive. Police or Protection dogs must have this to be top quality.

Also, the dog needs to be forgiving to the handler, this is found out in the puppy selection test. Dogs that hold grudges for sharp corrections aren't good. They don't obey like the one that does.

Drive up the butt, balanced and intense, VERY INTENSE. High energy level and top health. Hardness, sharpness, a civil edge, and absolute intrepidness in all situations and environments.

The kind of dog that really takes pleasure in hurting the decoy and beating down all challengers. He takes to every track or trail with incredible energy and focus. He is a little dominate, but lacks the need to constantly challenge his handler once rank has been established. The kind of dog that is every pansey pet owners worst nightmare and every trainers dream. . .LOL

That is my brief definition.

But guys. What about nerves?

Btw, I agree w/Brad and Van C's posts.

I think the intrepidness VanDeKamp mentioned would fall under nerves...

Isn't Fight Drive just an aspect of Defense Drive? Isn't Defense Drive basically Fight and Flight, meaning that Fight is not separate from Defense, but is actually a part of it?

The term "Working Ability" depends completely upon the breed that you are selecting. Working Ability in the context of this forum, geared toward bitework, is very different from working ability for say, a gun dog, or a SAR dog (I am still here because I have yet to find any decent working Lab forums <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ).

You could train a Lab in protection work, but would he be very good at it? As a game, maybe, but not once you push him into Defense. Not because Labs have no Defense. They do. It's just that they have more Flight than Fight in their Defensive repertoire. The average Lab would be very uncomfortable in Fight, just as the average GSD would be very uncomfortable retrieving waterfowl in icy cold water. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

To borrow from the book I'm reading, Labs have a very strong "Grab Bite" motor pattern. They could easily be taught to bite a sleeve, as a game. But due to weak Fight, it could never be more than a game.

So, for your chosen breed, Working Ability is very different from Working Ability for MY chosen breed. You have to put it in the right context to understand it. Since Rotties are a guard breed, you would want fight drive, but you would also want strong nerves. A weak nerved Rott with a lot of fight would be a nightmare, in my opinion.

Ok, whats a "civil edge"? I've heard the word civil thrown around but never really a definition.

Also, what does "stable in the head" mean because I've seen this term a lot too to describe a dog. How does that fit in with the overall picture of working ability?

I have no idea what "civil" refers to, but I think that "stable in the head" refers to nerve strength.

Hello CIVIL means For REAL means he will bite you with or without a sleeve on your arm. Clear in the head Means that the dog stays focused and does not flip out or get skiddist or try to leave the area or planet and you need a dog that is willing and ready to fight and bring the fight to you if you are the helper or bad guy. Hope this helps

I think that is probably the most concise defintion that I have ever seen on this forum! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />