I am new to protection breeds and would like some advise on 3 breeds mentioned, pluses and minuses of each, also if not trained in man work which would protect best if left on its own natural instincts to guard.

Honestly, even though I'm a GSD man and bias, you will have much better chances of finding a very good working line GSD or Malinois than you will a very good Dobe or Rott. There are just, flat out, more quality shepherds out there.

Now if you want a dog that will protect untrained, I would still say you will have better chances with a nice sharp working line GSD. BUT, the more intimidating breed may suit you better. Frankly, I don't think as many people are afraid of the GSD as they are of the Dobe or Rott. Silly people, they don't know where the real danger is. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for the advise, i rushed into getting a dog to early without proper advise and got a male dobe now 3years and a rott bitch 18 months, however by mistake of not being from working lines as i could nt find any, hovever i was told the dobe comes from a dutch security line.
I picked the dobe as a pup he was the dominant one and had to be seperated from his litter mates as he was overly aggresive with them. None of the 2 have been trained in manwork, i was having a property built and was having a lot of would be intruders, i put the dobe on a long chain and he did do his job at keeping people away, weather or not he would protect or turn and run if charged at i do not know, i can not comment to much on the rott bitch yet as we are waiting to move house and we are now living at a friends which is well fenced in so there is no one realy any threat to test the dogs. The dobe seems to be much more protection orientated and would sound of at a pin dropping, i have now found a kennel who trains in protection training and will shortly be taking the 2 down for a try out to see if they are up to it or not, howerever the trainer like you rates the gsd more highly then th rott and says he hasnt seen a good dobe in the uk for years.
regards peter

Main thing you have to do regardless of breed choice is get top bloodlines.

If you prefer the Rottweiler type look then they have plenty of dogs out there that have the right drives. Your just going to have to pay a good penny for it.

If you don't mind the appearance of the Malinois then I'd have to say they have more fight drive than any breed on average. This is because they haven't had the public water their lines down yet.

Peter, just for the record, when I say fight drive, I don't mean in comparison to the fighting and bull baiting type breeds. I mean with the common working dogs used for protection work.

The most civil dog is what I mean, that means a dog that can and will engage anytime/anywhere. Real protection work.

Anybody any comments on dobes, as i said in previous messages my dogs have not been tested yet (dobe and rott) however if i had to pick out of the 2 to protect me it would be the dobe, the rott seems to laid back and doesnt show the same interest in general to protect as he does. (as previously stated they are not from working lines as couldnt find any my mistake). Recently read the book Manstopper by Joel McMains which featured dobes a lot so there must be some out there. Has anyone any information on any working dobes in the UK ?, also any information on shutzhund in the UK. regards peter

I was very much in your position when I joined this board. I came here after reading Manstopper.

This guy doesn't know near as much as he claims. A lot of the info your going to get from that is false. The book by Tom Rose is a very good one.
-Protection Dogs for you and your family-
They sell it here.

This book will give you info on making selections, and everything you will need to know to get started.

Also you need to go to an official Schutzhund site, and they'll have a directory for you, local clubs for your area, etc.

For the Dobermans in the UK, I don't know. However, they're major Dobe kennels semi-close by. -Austria, Germany, Denmark-, etc. Not to knock the UK, I just haven't heard of any in particular.

When making your selection on the pup, always make sure the female is the best she can be. You're doing the right thing about researching first.

On the GSDs, same thing. There are lots of quality lines, more out there than the Dobes. If you have a choice I would want to get my dogs from police and protection lines.

If you don't find what you're looking for with the Dobes, then get a hard GSD. Many people don't think they're good enough in the public, because all most people see are the show types.

The GSD is will much easier to acquire because of the police and schutzhund sport.

Get a kennel that's dedicated to working only.
Van Camp may have a good spot on where to check. Get all your equipment and tapes you may need first. (I would)

IF you still haven't been happy with the results, get a Malinois. That's if you want a sharp, no fail, sport/protection dog.

Read old threads of the board.

These are my thoughts on the matter.

Peter

There is a thought on this board that everybody should have the best dog your money can buy. I agree if the world was perfect we all could have such a dog. But in the real world we sometimes have deal with the hand were dealt. In saying this, I would not look a Schlthund club to join, this is a very refined sport where only the best tracker/OB/protection dog and handler can make the grade.

I'm saying this to say that just because they tell you in a schlthund club that your dogs don't make their grade or have all the right stuff. Their level of Dog working and the rules require near absolute control in this sport of control Ob/Protection/Tracking. A certain style and
tempertment that takes a sound handler and dog.

This does not mean that your dogs can't do protection. I'd inqure at the Schulthund club about a Protection dog trainer.

The male Dobie may can do this type work since he sounds willing and the female Rottie might work out they don't mature until years later 1.5 - 2yrs sometimes 3 yrs. So you really don't know until you start testing their prey drive and williness to engage in playful warring. Get some advise from some professionals trainers here on this board and there.

I agree for the easiest to train dog the GSD and maybe Mal would be best. But there ain't nothing wrong with a good Rottie. Or Dobie if you can find one. A Dutch Shepard maybe the best choice cheaper then a high breed GSD and not as in demand
as a Mal.

But I'd suggest going as far with the dogs you have as you can. You might luck upon hidden talents or bring out dobie's. And you will learn some of the things that you need to know while training them.

It is agreed that starting out with the right blood line is the best way.

And that most book writers promote the breed they like, I read a book that stated that GSD were too light framed for real protection work, he preferred Pit Bulls, Rotties and American Bull dogs. These are tough dogs (but hard to train except for the Rot)I almost started laughing, because when you look around the world/Internet what is the most popular breed for Police/Breed quailfication sport/Protection and most Professional work. By numbers it is the GSD.

Brad G and DAckerson thanks for the advise much appreciate it as just trying starting out. To be honest i am more in to the protection side than shutz, so i will take the dogs as far as i can before looking further (you never Know) as said i do have a lot more faith in the dobe, he does make people turn and fires up quick, he quickly learned when people came near that when he sounded off he got praise, when ever anybody comes near after sounding off he always looks towards the house for me to come out to praise him which makes him sound off even more. There arnt many dobes where i live but the ones i have seen seem lifeless and placid mine is never still and extremely hyper. I am now organising a trainer to test and see what happens. ( he has bit when he was on the chain).
regards peter

PETER, am I right in saying that you are in the UK

If so, i'll bet you dont have a Rott thats capable of true protection work or schutz.

There is schutzhund in the Uk, but it is primarily a german shepperd schutz club, to compete you must have a gsd.

You will be extremely lucky if you find a Rott from working lines in the Uk.
Rotty breeders just breed for show, they wrongly think schutzhund/ german lines make vicious dogs!

Forget a working Rott, i have searched for years to no avail !
Breeders claim a Rott's look is enough, it shouldnt bite anyone.
If this was the case, then why arent they bred like that in other countries, germany,belgium,holland,france states etc,etc??

Even working gsd's are hard enough to find.

I have seriously considered importing, because i have been so dissapointed with uk working dogs !