I like leerburg kennels, but i wanna know what else is out there, to open my options up. So what breeders does anyone here recommend for the best bloodlines and prospect possible for a GSD?

Ben,
The question that you asked is just as vague as if someone had asked "What is the best car?"

Ummm...depends on what you want the car for.
Wanna go fast? Get a Dodge Viper.
Wanna do off-road? Get a Hummer.

Try asking questions that can recieve a more specific answer.

Will's right, but I have to say after you buy your first dog, you'll have a better idea of what you want in your 2nd dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

would this be specific enough for companionship, family-like protection dog and possible schutzhund? (for the original question) but i have another question besides the breeder first i guess what would you suggest DDR, CZECH, WEST GERMAN or other bloodlines for the same reasons?

One of the qualities of a good breeder is the ability to pick out a pup that suits your requirements. Leerburg, etc. All good breeders should be able to help you get the right pup. Having a dog with the DDR, Czech, etc background isn't as important as getting the right breeder. That is, as long as it's a working dog breeder. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Not at all knocking Leerburg here, because I don't know what their breeding practices are in terms of how many litters are bred each year, but even before I joined this board I can only recall seeing 1 litter advertised. Part of the reason I looked elsewhere for a dog was everytime I checked this site I didn't see anything available. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

John, you have been reading too many dog magazines and you have missed what a breeders responsibility is.

A breeders responsibility is to produce quality dogs based on their image of what the dog should be.

Here is what is not a breeders responsibility: advertising litters!

What in the world does this have to do with the price of tea in China?


In our case most of our litters are sold before they are born or at least by the time they are 8 weeks old. Our litters are almost all sold on word of mouth and not on advertising the litter. In other words we dont have a problem selling our dogs - most of the time we have a problem getting enough dogs for the people who are seriously interested in our dogs.

Now on your second point - I dont know what you mean when you said "I don't know what their breeding practices are in terms of how many litters are bred each year" I am right back to the price of tea in China.

Does a breeder who breeds 3 litters a year do a better job than a breeder who breeds 10 litters a year or does a breeder who breeds 20 litters a year do a better job than a breeder who produces 2 litters a year?

Does the number of litters you breed in a year have one whit to do with the quality of the dogs you produce? I think not.

The quality of your dogs is based on the genetics you put together. How you put them together is based on your experience. I have bred about 340 litters of working bloodlines in the past 30 years, thats where I draw my experience from.

Ed, I feel you may have misunderstood me so I would like to set the record straight. I certainly do appreciate the concept of Quality vs. Quantity and I understand what a breeders responsibility is. I didn't at all question your "experience", and I'm quite certain you have no problem selling your pups.

With that said, I went through a period of time for about a year where I spent a lot of time looking for a second dog to train in Schutzhund and during that time I didn't see anything on your website in regards to new litters. Maybe I should of placed a phone call, but at any rate based soley on your website, I was left with an impression that your kennel was not actively breeding and selling dogs.

I find the arguments about what a breeder should be humourous.
The author of an old book on breeding dogs, E. Whitney DVM stated in his book that the only way to understand dog breeding was to breed a lot of dogs. I'm paraphrasing here but he made it clear that there was no way to know what you would produce without the numbers to see.
Of course in a very organized world we could be collective breeders where we use the numbers produced by a whole organization to make breeding decisions. There could be a collective knowledge from which people breed.
In the US this just is not possible due to a lack of information, whitewashed information, or simply lies.
It is also very difficult to look at numbers here. There is no single measurement of quality, there is often NO measurement of quality in the pups that have gone down the road.
I personally look at the parents, look at what they have produced, and go from there. Occasionally I avoid particular lineages somewhat but never with a solid rule.
Anyone and I argue anyone that thinks they have the answer to how to breed a betteer workign dog is full of it. Sure, some people have atalent, or a particular knowledge, or hell simply some luck and can produce the proper genetic combination that can work. But, then you have rearing practices. These, for the most part in the US suck. They simple are horrible. Soooo even a well bred dog turns out poorly or provides a lackluster performance when they were capable of more. Of course the handler-owner blames the breeder for sucha lackluster performance because surely it could be nothing that the handler did wrong. They read all the right books, went to every seminar they could and of course they couldn't be to blame.
Hell, being a breeder is a loosing battle if you ask me. The only thing worse is to be a stud dog that doesn't produce dogs that all are on the podium, because certainly it couldn't be the fault of the training and rearing process.

But, then you have rearing practices. These, for the most part in the US suck. They simple are horrible. Soooo even a well bred dog turns out poorly or provides a lackluster performance when they were capable of more. Of course the handler-owner blames the breeder for sucha lackluster performance because surely it could be nothing that the handler did wrong. They read all the right books, went to every seminar they could and of course they couldn't be to blame.
Hell, being a breeder is a loosing battle if you ask me. The only thing worse is to be a stud dog that doesn't produce dogs that all are on the podium, because certainly it couldn't be the fault of the training and rearing process. Couldn't agree more.