ben wu wrote 08/28/2003 12:31 PM
Coyotes and foxes
#63456 - 08/28/2003 12:31 PM |
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There's been a rise in the population of coyotes and foxes near where I live. They seem to be migrating back to the urban areas where they've been almost unheard for decades. There was a story a few weeks back where a family felt trapped by some wild coyotes that had made their back yard a home (the coyotes even had pups!).
What should dog owners do when confronted with this scenario?
What can (or should) one do if a coyote attacks the dog and starts fighting?
b.
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63457 - 08/28/2003 02:04 PM |
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Ben keep your dog on a leash, most coyotes will run at the sight of man unless very hungry or rabid.
Coyotes have been known to kill and eat small dogs, so start feeding and keeping your small dogs inside unless supervised. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
If you have a big dog don't let him chase or go after a lone coyotes, the coyotes have been known to lure lone dogs off into traps were a coyote pack lay in wait.
Beware if a lone coyote attacks your dog keep your distance and try using a stick to take his rear legs out. if its a large dog and the coyote attack he is probably rabid.
The electronic taser would be a short range projectial or the mace spray, might work.
If its a small dog he'll probably pack it off before you can stop him. Shooting the coyote in the city is not recommended, too much of a liablity. The electronic taser would be a good option, its short range projectal that shocks the neverous system or for closer work mace spray/stream, might work.
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63458 - 08/28/2003 02:11 PM |
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Hi Ben,
I lived in Colorado for seven years. For several of those I was out on the prairie, with farm dogs running loose. Throughout the entire time I lived there, I packed or hiked in the mountains with dogs ranging from toy poodles to chows to cattle dogs to wolf hybrids.
Not one was ever attacked by a coyote. You could actually sit on the porch at night and "call" the coyotes in-they were tons of them, they'd yip and yowl and talk to you, come fairly close to the house. They did once eat a calf-but I say again, they NEVER attacked the dogs. The dogs, though, periodically attacked each other.
Your dog has a pretty small risk of being attacked by a pack of ravenous, slavering coyotes.
I'd be much more concerned about any fox you see out in the daytime-for rabies reasons. I would definitely not try to rescue my dogs from any wild dog that did attack them-I would guess the animal was rabid. Keep your dog up to date on rabies vaccines, put him indoors if you're worried.
If you have a toy, there's probably a better chance he'd get nailed by a large bird of prey than a coyote. I have watched hawks and ospreys casually settle in nearby trees, flapping along with us, when I go out with the toy dogs. I've never been followed by a coyote or a fox doing this.
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63459 - 08/28/2003 02:27 PM |
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Alex wouldn't you say that a coyotes that enters the city, is desparate/hungry enough to attack whatever he can get. In California coyotes where packing off cats and small dogs from their homes when a similar population explosion caused a lack of food.
When an animal starts venturing out of its comfort zones its desparate/hungry or sick and it becomes dangerous in a whole different kinda way then when its in its own enviroment.
Ben watchout!!
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63460 - 08/28/2003 02:31 PM |
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I forgot-a pair of coyotes had pups in someone's back yard? Odd-usually they have a family group, foxes are the ones who couple up.
Perhaps the family did something to make them feel at home-such as initially feeding them, not scaring them off or calling animal control or the health department. On a bigger place, coyotes do like wolves-one breeding pair, and they run in a big family group.
The general rule is the more you try to wipe them out, the more coyotes you get-we were told by the wildlife people that when a group loses a member, they compensate-meaning every bitch comes in season and breeds, so instead of one breeding pair with one, maybe two litters a year, you get a "coyote explosion".
We kept popping them anyway. Some folks ran greyhounds after them. Mean, yeah, but not alot to do out there...I think they don't "lure" dogs out-that's Jack London stuff. They seemed to have some sort of gentlemen's agreement with our dogs-they'd get too close to the house and then the dogs would take off after them-and I think it was in fun pretty much. When I went down to one dog for a short time, and moved closer to town, the town coyotes seemed a little bolder than the farm ones-and my dog wasn't as wild to go speeding after them. But I think the idiots from California were contributing-leaving snacks out for them, and well, not firing a round over their furry little heads from time to time.
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63461 - 08/28/2003 02:46 PM |
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No Don, I don't think they're desperate at all-they are clever opportunists and do well in the city. No one shoots them or traps them there, and there's a s*** ton of fools who leave garbage out, intentionally feed wildlife, and keep their cats and dogs outside-"so he has room to run" but really they can't be bothered to keep an eye on their pet. Why should a small unattended dog or cat seem much different than a rabbit or a large rat, things coyotes naturally eat?
We had cougars take dogs, cats, even a kid, out in Colorado-but never heard of anyone losing a pet to a coyote. I am sure it happens, but it isn't something I really worried about. Heartworm gets more dogs than coyotes.
There was in, the Rocky Mountain News, in 1997 or 98, an article,-a family "lost" a dog, a toy, to a pack of coyotes in a public park-said they snatched him right up and disappeared. A few months later the dog shows up filthy and matted but healthy and fit-the vet's opinion was that the dog had been running with the coyotes...
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63462 - 08/28/2003 03:01 PM |
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I have to say that I know from first hand experience that coyotes will lure dogs out to where the rest of the pack awaits- I've seen them do it. Luckily, my dog realized he was in danger when the other five closed in and escaped back to me. I've lived in New Mexico and Arizona for many years and can tell you that the coyotes quickly lose their fear of man. I've had one regularly follow me while I took my dog on a walk on a leash. He would stay about 8 feet behind me-if we stopped, he stopped- then kept following. He'd run a little ways away if I threw a rock at him and then come right back! He did this for months-almost every day. I have no idea what he wanted! I saw a coyote come out of the desert and stalk up to the sandbox where my two year old son played- luckily I saw it from the kitchen window when he was about 30' feet away and ran out banging pots and pans.(that's what we did to scare bears when I was a kid in Alaska) I have lost many cats to them also. So do be careful if you have them around. There are a lot here where I now live in Texas and I don't leave any dogs loose at night.
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63463 - 08/28/2003 03:05 PM |
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Alex you seem to have a lot of respect for them. Me being a city boy that sometimes venture into the woods camping and fishing hide aways. I see them as wild animals that will steal and eat anything they can get away with.
I do see how firing a couple rounds over their head might keep them at bay. And that they problem in California was probably caused by city dwellers that thought it was cute for the coyotes to finish the fillet- menon scraps that Fi-fi left, until the coyote brought friends and the dish was not enough and off went Fi-Fi's head.
But I do think venturing in uncharted lands, like city makes them more aggressive and they are there for a purpose. To find something or anything to eat.
Like most dogs they like moving targets but will scavage when times are tough. So cats and small dogs that are use to cuddling or coming up sniffing larger dogs are easy prey.
I guess they can be socail and live around humans but I wouldn't trust they, they are wild! I hear coyotes will inter-bred with dogs. But foxes cannot or they can't produce puppies.
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63464 - 08/28/2003 03:18 PM |
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Cindy sounds scary and like the voice of experince like Alex, with a different outlook of the coyote.
I live in the midwest and rarely see coyotes though you hear them all over, at night. When I see a coyote he usually takes off unless he is a 50 to 100 yrds off.
Boy that was pretty close situation with your son, I think I'd post my sentry dog on either side next time so that would never happen again.
A lot of people beleive that need for a watch or guard dog is at a end but situation like that, let you know there are someplaces where its almost a must.
I still wonder why a lone coyote was trailing you and your dog, this wasn't a toy poddle or palmerina was it? Usually one coyote would not try to take on a human. And if he was sick/rabid it wouldn't matter, he would have just attacked.
So I wonder what he was doing if the dog was med/large where was the meal? Most wild animals don't take 50-50 chances. Mayhe he was waithing for scraps???
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Re: Coyotes and foxes
[Re: ben wu ]
#63465 - 08/28/2003 04:16 PM |
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I lived just outside L.A. in the Augura Hills and Thousand Oaks area. The areas are backed by hill country and scrub oak. . .we saw many Coyotes. That was their habitat, the hills and the neighborhood areas. They take cats and small dogs on an everyday basis. They also don't tend to raid garbage, but will take roadkill real quick. They were not "coming into town" they lived in town and have since that area was built.
Now I live in Portland, Oregon. They are still all over the place up here, but are quite a bit less brazen. The only times I have seen them in the city areas is for the brief second it takes them to "skin out". (that's Texas talk for take off, I'm in Texas right now and thats what all the bubbas say lol)
I guess my point is that they are considered urban wildlife in a lot of places and live right under your nose without hardly ever causing a problem.
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