I haven't seen anyone start this conversation yet, if it does exist please ignore. What are some opinions of the attack out of the blind being replaced with a run away in the 1? I think its a load of crap. Even though you can still squeeze some crappers through the 1 with some training, the real bad ones will not be able to pass this test.
I think its just making the sport even worse. Just a thought, it just might have something to do with those show people <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If I understand correctly, SchH rules are replaced by IPO rules and according to IPO rules there is no attack out of the blind in IPO. I don’t know all the gruesome details that led to this decision and who’s really behind it, but I never heard of IPO being referred to as a “lesser” test. Correct me if I’m wrong <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

My question is: what about the breed survey? Will attack out of the blind still be part of breed survey? If yes, that means teaching an exercise which will not be used anywhere in trials... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

So what you are saying is that there will be an escape bite instead. I will say that on a new field under a new helper, I have seen some weaker dogs unnerved by the attack out of the blind. Alot of the weaker dogs fold on this test; in fact alot more then on the courage test. You will see more dogs get Sch1 (show-lines) if this comes into play.

I agree with you Dan. Whether it's an improvement or not, rules should stay the way they are. I can see Max turning in his grave, for the uncertainty of the future of Schutzhund. This may not be a big deal in the present time but those little changes add up. Just think back to how the sport was 100 yrs ago to how to is today. In another 100 yrs it may be hardly a "test" at all.

Showlines? Shoot, pretty soon we may see poodles out there. In the future, I can see this sport being too easy for the working class dogs, but just purrrfect for those pretty dogs.

It's all political. But maybe we can do something about it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

From the NEW rulebook..

SchH

SUPRISE ATTACK OUT OF THE BLIND (40pts)

On the judges signal the helper undertakes an attack on the handler and dog, without making intimidating sounds. The dog must immediately defend against the attack by energetically biting with a strong calm grip. Once the dog has seized the arm, the helper gives him two stick hits on the hindquarters, sides of in the area of the withers.

IPO (Examination levels 1-3)

4."Defense of the dog during guarding phase"

"After the guarding phase, upon a signal from the judge, the helper makes an attack on the dog. The soft stick is to he utilized by making threatening motions with it above the protective sleeve without hitting the dog. At the same time the helper is attacking the dog frontally by driving the dog forward with corresponding resistance, without additional movement of the sleeve. The sleeve is to be held close to the body. Once the dog has a grip on the sleeve, the helper places the dog, out of motion, to the side and the pressure phase begins in a straight direction. The helper must drive all dogs in the same direction. Therefore, the judge must position him/herself in such a manner that it is possible to observe and evaluate how the dog acts" .... ok.. you get the idea.

"The hits with the soft stick are to be placed on the dog's shoulders and in the area of the withers. The intensity of the stick hits must be the same for all dogs. The first hit is applied after 4-5 paces, the second hit after 4-5 more paces during the pressure phase. After the second stick hit, additional pressure, without stick hits, is to be demonstrated."

There is plenty more if you want the rest buy the rulebook.

This sounds like an improvement, which is good.

Originally posted by Mike Sanchez:
Whether it's an improvement or not, rules should stay the way they are. But now that you have the rules it is good?

Mike wrote: "Just think back to how the sport was 100 yrs ago to how to is today."


What was the sport like 100 years ago Mike? What are the differences between then and now, do you know?

Yes Deanna, if the rules change for the better, I'm for it. Are you? It's just apparent that "improvements" are not always what they seem, which is why I said otherwise. But it's our obligation to maintain high standards if we're going to better the working breeds.

Robert, do some research and you'll see that back in Stephanitz's time, there was attack under gunfire. Also, instead of the A-frame, the obstacle was vertical, and at 7ft 6inches. I'm sure there were others, but those alone are very important. Evidently, the vertical was taken out because it was causing dog's to become injured, but it was original and definately not something a weiner dog could do.

And thanks Renee for the compliment. No I'm not a psychic, it's just common sense. What I post are my honest thoughts. And of coarse it's just my insight, take it or leave it. But if you want to attack people, you should start a b----ing thread. I'm not here to gather stars by my name.

Ok, now back to the topic...