I have a GSD that is sleeve happy. Any suggestions to stop this ? Thanks John

Throw away your sleeve, start in a muzzle, test occasionally with a hidden sleeve, and occasionally train with a suit.

What is you're definition of sleeve happy? Exactly what does it look like? Kevin could you go into a little more detail on you're answers please?

Thanks

I find this to be a problem with many dogs. It can be a BIG downfall to a PSD. I personally don't like or do much sleeve work at all. Well, actually no sleeve work for that matter. I don't like hidden sleeves either...ask Lou about that one..LOL

I'm always amazed when people who only train on a sleeve wonder why the dogs are "sleeve" or arm happy. Heck, you taught them to be. In some cases, I've had handlers at seminars back-tie their dogs....actually I tie it I trust the not, and will then take out a sleeve. The dogs will fire up and the handlers will stand next to their dogs. I'll toss the sleeve a few feet away from the handler, but within reach of the dog. If the dog is "sleeve fixated" they grab the sleeve and forget all about me. I've then walked in while the dog has a mouth full of sleeve, thrashing it and pretended to stab, shoot, hit the handlers. The dogs don't even pay attention. That is sleeve fixation at it's worst. I've also seen it cross over when dogs run after suspect looking for a sleeve or the presentation of a sleeve in order to engage. Again, normally not a dog problem, unless poorly selected, but rather a training issue. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the information Josh. I guess you're post was directed at me? The one thing I would like Kevin to go into detail about is using the muzzle instead of the sleeve.

I will never use an exposed sleeve in training. Like mentioned it will cause the dog to become focused on the sleeve. Hidden sleeves are exellent as well as bite suits. Muzzle work will do wonders for some dogs to help increase their fight drive, and with the quarry in no equipment the dog will focus on the aggitation of the helper rather than the anticipation of being able to bite the sleeve. A good exercise to start with to try and break this fixation is the "shuck". Have the quarry with an exposed sleeve on one arm, and a hidden sleeve on the other..send the dog and have him take the exposed sleeve, then the quarry will drop or shuck that sleeve leaving only the hidden sleeve to be taken as the quarry keeps the attention of the dog. At first the dog may keep that sleeve before realizing what is going on. After a couple of repetitions he should be spiting out the first sleeve to get at the quarry taking the hidden sleeve. Good luck

Out of curiosity:

How old is this dog and at what stage of training is it?

We use multiple sleeves and multiple agitators for this. The idea is to teach the dog that a slipped sleeve doesn't end the game. When the first sleeve is slipped give the bite or watch command to re-direct the dog back to the agitator. If the dog turns to leave without being out-ed the agitator will get it's attention again and show the second sleeve or the second agitator will attack and, if neccessary, the dog re-commanded to make the bite on the second agitator. Civil work will also help with this. It teaches the dog that the end point of the exercise isn't always a slipped sleeve.

As the dog learns control we spend less time slipping the sleeve. This is also why the bite suit helps with this since you don't normaly slip a bite suit. The dog begins to learn that the person is the quarry not the sleeve. In essance you are transfering to a new prey object.

This does become an area where I disagree with the training used by the agitators we work with. They will attack the dog after it has been outed and commaded to return to the handler. The problem with this is that the dog becomes overly sensitve to an attack from the rear after the recall. I counter this by giving the bite command when the attack starts. I don't want the dog to hesitate on the recall command. I also want the dog to trust my commands and that I will watch what is happening behind it as it is recalled.

Another issue with sleeve happy dogs is that the helper created or allowed the unbalanced training to occur. Every time the dog is allowed to bite the sleeve, instincts are being reinforced. If the dog is looking or barking at the sleeve and then reinforced for that behavior, the problem begins. If the dog is only working in pursuit drive without any aggression the training is unbalanced. The dog should be focused on and activating the helper, not the equipment. The dog is active, the helper is reactive. The helper is a sparring partner to the dog. This is only one reason for a sleeve happy dog, maybe the dog is weak in its aggression instincts. We need excellent helpers that know and understand dog psychology, instincts, and behaviors in order to reach the highest levels of training. And Police Service is the highest…………

A training program with the use of muzzles, hidden sleeves and bitesuits is the best way to go, however switching to a bitesuit can result in the same problem as with the sleeve if the suit is used often. Proper development of the dogs fight drive is the answer to your problem. Ed made a video with Kevin S. that takes you through some of the steps of this. There are a ton of KNPV dogs that hit a suit, but they won't bite a man.

Like most things it comes down to proper selection of the dog first. If you have the right dog, he will hit the man just about anywhere even if they have only done sleeve work. I have met a few dogs that have never worked on anything but a sleeve, but when doing street bite have hit the legs, back, biceps, whatever works. This is the dog not the training.

In some cases it might take a training session or two to get a dog to understand that there are other areas to bite. This subject is one of my BIGGEST soapboxes when I teach seminars for Depts or Decoys. I think there are many different pieces of the "puzzle" that make for a good working PSD. It takes the right dog + the right handler + the right trainer + the right time and $ to have a successful program. If any part of this is lacking, it will show. This is why so many units have the problems they do.

Also I have a pretty lengthy article I wrote about a year ago on fight driven targeting and ground fighting for PSDs. If any LEO handler or Trainer wants a copy, please feel free to contact me off list