Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all advice given. However, I'm still not familiar with the whole 'crate' issue. I probably sound stupid when I ask but do I just lock the dogs in a crate each for the 8 or so hours that my husband and I are at work? Won't they fret for each other? Do I put them inside or outside? Are they ever allowed time to play together in the yard, as apart from the two fights I mentioned earlier, they have never had any problems and are virtually inseparable when they play? Please excuse my ignorance <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

At the moment, we have had to leave them in the house when we're not home due to some stupid neighbours who are not willing to contribute half the cost of replacing a failing fence between our dogs (staffy x and pitty x) and their dogs (little white fluffy yappy things - not that I have anything against the dogs, they can't help having stupid owners <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> ). We don't really want to come home to little white fluffy bits all over our yard, so we leave the dogs inside until the fence is sorted out.

My husband insisted on getting a pitty for our second dog, a decision I have come to regret - we have realised that we were much too young and inexperienced to take on such a dominant, headstrong dog. We love him dearly and he has never shown any agression towards humans (except for next door's hired gardener who thought he'd be clever and reach over the fence into our yard to try and pat Tyler <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> he only rec'd a scratch on his hand - clearly a warning as I imagine Tyler could have done much worse). He is friendly to all our guests but an absolute terror around other dogs. We have no intention of giving him away, and in my response from Ed, he said we have a handler problem not a dog problem, so we have been following Ed's instructions, amending our behaviours and have noticed improvements already. However, it seems that everyone is recommending crates so I would appreciate some assistance, perhaps Ed has a link on his site that I've missed? Thanks for your patience everyone!!

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-SpecTrain.htm#crate

Has a bunch of information about crate training. Mostly about in using with conjunction with housebreaking, but also for adults.

I have my pups in separate crates while I am at work and they do fine. Nice and safe, they love them, get a treat when they go in just before I leave the house. I don't like having them in much more than 8 hours, but they have gone 12. What's important is the amount of exercise, training, 'dog' time, they get when you are home and they are uncrated.

Hi Melanie,
I certainly don't have the expertise with working dogs that is available in this forum. What I have is life experience with big dogs living in the home environment for 35 years without ever havig to face the horror of a bite to my family or others that visit (knock-wood). My crates are as valuable to my dogs us as a collar and leash.
Our crates are kept in a busy part of the house (ie: living room, family room). I feel the dogs need to see us and know they are a part of what's going on. Until the dogs are trustworthy against destruction or injury to themselves, I have no problem crating while the house is unoccupied. That may be 10 minutes or 8 hours. As my dogs become "family members" the crates are left open for them to use at their descretion. Their chosen place to sleep is in the crate. They are also taught that "house" means go to crate (no exceptions). When visitors come, the dogs are allowed to meet and greet and are then crated, still in the same room. When dinner is served the dogs go to their crate. I understand you have two male dogs. That would heighten my need to crate for their safety. You have males that understand the "pack" better than we could ever hope to. Someday, something will ignite the fire in one of them while you are not there. The only thing that will keep them from injury or worse is the crate. My feeling is, if one does not wish the clutter or bother of a crate in the way, then one should consider a goldfish as a pet.
Good luck with the boys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Melanie
Got carried away with my crate opinions and forgot one of the basics I try to follow. NEVER CRATE TO DISCIPLINE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> .........The crate should always be a positive experience.
Jerry

We have a front and back yard which are separated by a metal fence, would keeping the dogs separate (one in each yard) suffice for during the day while we are at work? They could still interact (see, sniff etc) with each other (which would help with the separation anxiety?)but would not be able to fight. That way we would still have the security of dogs protecting our house, but would have no concerns re: them fighting while we're not home. Then we could keep them in the crates in the evening etc when we're home.

Candace: One fight happened outside, the other occurred inside but progressed to outside. Both were over bones, which was clearly our fault. We now feed them separatly, and I will take on board your thoughts re: giving them treats while apart - thanks.

Aaron: I appreciate your honesty. I'm well aware that we've made a mistake by getting two male dogs of this particular breed. You say "Most people have no clue or don't thihnk their dog will ever get into a fight but when it does, they say "These dogs are bad dogs and are too much for the average person". I don't think APBTs are bad dogs but I must say, I do think they are too much for the average person as the average person is probably not willing or able to put in the amount of time required to properly train such a strong willed and intelligent dog. The average person probably isn't aware of the need to crate these kind of dogs, and the average person probably wants a couple of dogs who play nicely together and keep each other company while the owners are at work. I know this because I was the average person <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> . Now we are trying to be responsible dog owners by implementing effective methods of dealing with our dogs, rather than just saying "Nope, it's too hard, lets give one away and get a mini-foxie instead" Although maybe that is the answer for the happiness of our dogs, would Tyler (our APBT) be happier in a family where he is the only dog? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I really don't know, but I do appreciate all of your input and hopefully we'll get this issue sorted somehow.

Oh and thank you everyone for the advice re: getting our dogs off the furniture - I look forward to nice-smelling, hair free lounges <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for the extra long post