Hello Everyone:

I've been reading and watching the boards for quite some time and this is my first post, so here it goes. I have a nice young male (9 months old) that I am doing the basic foundation and socialization with. My goals are for him to be able to serve as a dual purpose prospect when he matures and title him with WPO/DPO, etc. (In case you were wondering, my dept wants you to appropriate your own dogs). I have started him with the basics of traditional schutzhund training (tracking, OB, tug, etc). I just found out that my dept also wants the dog to have some "certification" such as a CGC or CD on the dog as well. I thought that the BH would suffice, but that isn't enough for the administrators (my thinking is probably because of liability, etc). My questions are:
1. Should I stop the foundation SCH work on the puppy and try to concentrate more on traditional OB (for the CGC or CD?)
2. If so, wouldn't this create some sort of conflict or confusion in his training (set backs, becoming handler depentant in the future, etc).
3. If anyone out there has had situations like this with their depts I would be very interested in how they handled it so the dogs and their level of training didn't diminish.

Our K-9's are not particularly strong as far as working K-9's go (IMHO). I do agree that most handlers know a lot about being cops and not much about raising or training dogs. I know it would be much easier to go with a young adult, but the dept would like to see a handler raise and title a dog (SCH/IPO) themselves instead of someone going out and purchasing a titled dog and ending up with additional rank/dominance problems that an inexperienced handler would almost certainly have. I'm here to learn and really would appreciate any and all information.
Regards
BC

I didn't forget, I just didn't want to make my first post so long. The dog is a Giant Schnauzer (import) who comes from primarily DDR working lines. I got him at about 12 weeks old. I have quite a few of Ed's tapes and I've also used those types of techniques with very favorable results in his training. My background with dogs started when I was in the USMC, prior to my transition to civilian life, I started in sport (SCH) and have worked Shepherds, Malinois and another Giant Schnauzer. I am not the "been there - did that" type." I'm not an expert, I'm just wanting to up my K-9 IQ so to speak and I don't want to make needless mistakes on my dog now and have to deal with correcting them in the future. I want to end up with a nice dog that has the capablility as well as likes to do the work required of a working K9.

Thanks in advance,
BC

I don't quite understand the CGC, or CD stuff. If you follow a basic foundation in SchH you will get more than enough of an outside dissinterested viewpoint of the dog's character through the BH. Remember that the BH is a traffic sure companion dog and that it eliminates dogs based on innapropriate aggression towards humans in a wide variety of contexts.....staked out and alone, joggers, bicyclists, and even towards vehaicles, and the CGC and CD can't do more than that. Maybe your admin. just thinks the BH is another schutzhund title. Try informing them it is a degree and pretty much will combine the elements of both the CD and CGC.
I would keep up the work in SchH at this point but as soon as the dog is able begin apprehension work in as many varied environments as possible.
When preping your dog for police work and schhutzhund remember that your job is bigger with the police dog because they have to generalize the skills. You'll need to add suit work and hopefully muzzle work after the dog is more mature.
I would also develope the hunting drive of the dog through play with a favorite toy/s and later with the decoy in the woods.
I also suggest, when the dog can hadle it, to do windscenting for the bad guy in the bushes where the dog barks the bad guy into flight, no equipment no biting here. Many repititons of this will firmy develope the idea that bad guys hide in all kinds of places and flush when he challenges them. The decoy, as the dog matures can begin to rise up and through body language provide brief confrontation and when the dog rises to the challenge become frightened and flee from the progressively more powerful pup.
Now all this advice is based on the dog having decent working drives and environmental security and a decoy that knows how to touch on the dogs adolscent drives without walking all over him and crushing him.
By the way you need to get the tape of 199 police dog championship in Augsburg from Ed. The GS's in the tape are from the Bundesgrenschutzpolitzei and are old DDr lines as well. Some nice police dogs, and really decent guys handling and training them.

BC,

Good to see more Schnauzer people.

The only thing I would add to Kevin's post is that if the dog can pass the BH, I doubt it would have much trouble with the CGC. From what I have seen if the dog can do Schutzhund Obedience, my guess is that the dog would probably be able to do the CD as well (Keep in mind I don't do either, I am going by what I have seen of the tests.) I would train for the Schutzhund first, and if you need to do some tune up for either a CGC or a CD it should be a minimal amount of training. Plus this dog needs to learn his primary job now, the rest of this stuff could be trained later.

Richard

I am in Montgomery, AL, and I am interested in protection training my 9mos old female GS. How do I go about finding a quality protection trainer in my area? My main concern is not screwing up my dog by exposing her to some macho/police wannabe that is not qualified. I am not aware of a local club, although there is a great ScH club 90 miles up the road. In the end I want to have a trained dog to keep my family safe and act as a deterrent at work. I have considered buying an already trained dog, but, I am aware of "not knowing what the trainer put in the dog's head" problem.

Scott,

You probably just did the right thing. If there is a trainer in the area somone on this board will know them. I have found trainers in Canada and Ohio for people on this board.

I have always prefered to train my own dogs. For 2 reasons. First I like doing the training. It is just a ton of fun. Second, I like the opportunity to learn about the dog and how it is going to work. I have found that I can tell much more about the dog by seeing how it trains up.

OK, if anyone out there knows anyone, send me a name. Thanks.

Riesen Schnauzers.......................
Scott, you might want to gwet with Gary Hanrahan. I do not have any person experience with him or his techniques but there are two things about him that might intrest you: 1) he is successful in Sch and 2) he is in Alabama

First of all, thanks Kevin & Richard for replying so quickly. Kevin, you are 100% correct, my admin thinks that the BH is "JUST ANOTHER SCH TITLE." I have tried to inform them and did a staff study with links to various types of sport clubs and their foundation and training from KNPV to SCH/IPO, etc. I'm trying to walk that very thin line of bringing in new information in a positive sense, but not wanting to be the squeaky wheel that is making a lot of noise to get the grease. All I can hope for is to get him set on the right path and do some good work with him and try to minimize the negative experiences that he encounters. At the same time, I want to make training fun for both him and me too. When he gets older, I will try that windscenting and let you know how it works out. I'm located in the greater San Diego, CA area (don't discount me yet, I'm from New York, I just work and live here (smile) and this isn't the best place to be for serious work or sport training. If you are coming out this way for any seminars, I would be interested in attending, so please let me know or send it to me via email.
Once again, thanks for the help to everyone. Regards,
Brandon
email: b_chow@msn.com

Hows about staying on topic- RICHARD, Scott, and Trooper. :rolleyes: