I hope I did this right, I am trying to post a new topic as recommended.

How important do you all as breeders feel, is it to purchase puppies from parents with titles? Is it acceptable or wise to puchase one from an untitled dog if the other pedigrees in his lines show top working ability/titles?

I ask because my one of my males father has no titles, however his parents and 5 generations back have working and protection/police titles.

My pup is showing strong prey drives and is doing great with the bite work playing/training. Will it "look" bad that his father has no titles? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thanks!
Sheryl

As I posted earlier, If you are looking into studing your dog out later when he is older even if titled people are going to wonder about that gap. One reason why my solid black male won't ever be bred. He's not titled nor is his father. So he remains our house pet regardless of his mainly DDR lines. There are ALOT of good dogs out there that are titled and proven. You would have to be prepared to prove why your dog is better than everyone else's and that's HARD to do. So if I had a choice, no I wouldn't buy a dog from untitled parents. BTW, I didn't buy my black male, we took him over from his previous owners.

Thanks! I appreciate your replying. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

look at ed frawleys females - - the majority that he breeds are not titled and he sells a lot of dogs. i myself am not into dog sports but do search and rescue trailing and cavader work along with protection training my dogs. does this make them not worthy of breeding because thy don't have a sch, or ipo, or zvv titled behind them. ( how about a certification for trailing). (they are dogs from leerburg kennels).with that said i also believe that ed knows a lot about chossing a good stud dog and good brood bitches. but for people to only be concerned about titles is a joke in my opinion. if i were so caught up in titles i sure as hell would not think about a dog from ed but i do have dogs from him and will be getting another one from him in july. ( and by the way i do not agree with every thing ed has to say about dogs, but then he knows a lot more on breeding and training than i do ). i will also say that titles are a good help in evulating a dogs working ability but titles do not make up the total dog. for those that think so i feel that they have severe tunnel vision. well i guess i stirred the pot up with my opinion on the issue of titles.

But again, Ed has the reputation behind him, people know his dogs. Not like an unknown dog from who knows.

yes ed has a good reputation, but he had to start somewhere and he built that reputation but at some point people had to start to wonder about his untitled females as well as the untitled males that he has used from his own breedings - i have a female from dylan/cogo (11 months old now and she is starting to come into her self now, and feeling her oats if you get my drift - - she is going to be naturally protective) if you have a dog that can work you don't have to start out trying to sell on a national level, try locally and let time and good breeding and word of mouth build your reputation. the real point i was trying to make is that you said that you had one dog in the pedigree that was without a title and you might think that this would hinder your breeding plans - - - it is of my opinion if your dog will work and the bloodline has good genetics behind it then you are only hindered by yourself - - again this is my opinion and i would not let one dog in a pegigree (with out a title ) stop me from breeding if everything else was good.

I guess this is one of those topics that everyone has a different opinion on.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
My thought was when I purchased this particular dog, the breeder has an outstanding reputation and is well known so it would not matter. I just wanted to hear some other opinions. I have heard debates with both opinions over the years. He is the first I have puchased whose parents did not have titles.

I plan to get him titled as the years go by and hopefully add him to my breeding program if he does well.

I like Allen's opinion;

it is of my opinion if your dog will work and the bloodline has good genetics behind it then you are only hindered by yourself - - again this is my opinion and i would not let one dog in a pegigree (with out a title ) stop me from breeding if everything else was good.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, I have some ideas on this. Danu and Mara are untitled and I doubt anyone would argue with their production. Yes, they are from Leerburg. Would I like it if they were titled? Yes. Am I going to worry about it at their age? Nope. Do they 'work' for me. Yup. I think the question isn't titles...the question is what is the dog. People hate to admit it, but you can 'title' just about anything...home field, home helper...minimum scores and walla(sp).

SHOW ME THE DOG....or was it Show me the MONEY!!! I never get that right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In the same vein, many good dog breeders indicate on their websites, "no papers" when referring to certain dogs. What does that mean ?