My female trained in Agility for about a year at the Seattle Agility Center and did really well, but the classes were absurdly crowded so I ended up going into Schutzhund - she got her BH - and now I'm doing Ring Sport with her daughter and my male. I wanted to take the puppy into Agility, as I think it's a fine way to teach structured exercises, teamwork & off-leash control, and since the school requires basic OB I said "well we're getting that at Ring Sport club". Big mistake. This is the response I got back:

 Quote:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: beginning agility
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:07:22 EDT
From: CanineFun@aol.com
To: josebrwn@speakeasy.net


Hi

Sorry, but our insurance will not cover us for any dog that has been "Protection" trained and they consider French ring part of that venue. We don't really let dog aggressive dogs into class anyway, as the risk is just too high. Good to hear from you again. Diana

I went round and round with these folks and just tried to say ... hey, don't worry about me, just reevaluate your policies, investigate, do something or anything but it was all no go, like talking to a wall, one excuse after another.

This makes me mad on a lot of levels. The personal aspects aside, what does this say about the FCI sports in America? About the cohesion of working professionals in the world of dogs? About the public perceptions of our sports?

I got some good feedback from folks in my club. Mostly along the lines of "don't ask, don't tell". Because people are ignorant, and we have to live with it. But I couldn't imagine this happening in Europe (does it?) Also, some thought that this was a white-wash, that insurance companies do not really write policies like this (do they?)

I want to do something, I don't want to let this go. Besides training up my dogs and whipping these folks' butts at the next trial - which would feel pretty good but not accomplish much - what can I do, to help change public perception, let alone insurance policies, regarding our sports?

Sincerely,
Joe Brown
Seattle, Wa.

This will piss off the agility people, but it's the truth as I see it:

I'm not surprised - most of the agility people that I know would respond that way. The weenies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Of course, I see tons of basically out-of-control dogs running amok in the various agility classes that I've observed. Since a good part of the training is done off-leash, there's a fair amount of the run away dog syndrome going on. This leads to a lot of those dogs run up to other dogs, and occasionally ( but not very often ) end up getting into low grade dog fights. My wife has had to snatch our Corgi up to save her at least a half a dozen times in the past five years. That gets old.
They say that agility dogs require basic OB to attend training, but I don't see much evidence of that until the top level agility dogs come out. Until then, like I said - chaos reigns.

I'd never put up with that level of chaos, but the agility folks seem kinda use to it, and I've seen this is multiple agility clubs in several states, so it's just not an isolated happening.
I use to take my dogs for socialization to agility practice while my wife was training there, but I quickly learned to keep my boys at home since the other people didn't seem to have a firm grasp on the concept of controlling their dogs.

Believe me, you're better off just skipping agility training all together.
Just my opinion, but based on a lot of observation.

I love the assumption that since your dog is protection trained it automatically equates to dog on dog aggression……what a goof !! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Iv'e ran into that with my SAR/Schutzhund dog. We had SAR training the other day at the Schutzhund field. I broke the news to one guy that dissaproves of such cross training when Thunder "found" him, and was doing a beautiful alert bark. He was hiding in one of the blinds when Thunder found him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. That hold and bark has sure done wonders for his find alerts. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a friend at work who took a very bad bite on the shin from an Aussie at an Agility comp. you can see ALL the dog's teeth marks on his leg. That was months ago and it still hurts a bit. Maybe I ought to stay with SchutzHund <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If agility people were really serious about dog aggression, there would be a lot fewer border collies. I’m at the point where I just assume they are all aggressive and avoid the lot of them. The most difficult aspect of agility I’ve had to deal with is navigating the seemingly endless maze of dog aggressive border collies.

In defense of the border collie, I honestly think that most of the time the problem isn't really dog aggression so much as just hyperactivity without a proper outlet. The poor dogs are wound tighter than springs. However, as a border collie owner (and luver <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I have to say that I am pretty bloody sick n tired of people looking at me strange because my border collie is NOT an out of control spaz- like a calm BC is somehow wrong. These same people are usually the hypercompetitive ones who also run their out of control spazzes in flyball (the dumbest dog sport ever invented, IMO.) I got so disgusted that I left agility for many years.

I'm not really surprised at the decision your agility club came to. Most of the clubs I've come across don't have the slightest clue what SchH/Ring is all about so of course they view it as "aggressive dog" training. And then proceed to turn a blind eye to all the untrained psychos entered in their trials.

I don't have the space for my own agility equipment so I take my dog to empty playgrounds and practice on the ladders/bridges/seesaws. The dogs get the same type of off-leash confidence building workout on unfamiliar equipment and I get to avoid the overcrowded classes.

Ring is more fun anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Agility people are just weird for the most part. My local agility classes won`t allow me in because Einstein hasn`t attended an obediance class. We had just run through sit, down, stay, come etc. and Einstein did them perfectly. They asked me where I took class and I told them I trained Einstein myself. I was then told that Petsmart is an ideal place for training because they use clickers and the dog is never punished and people aren`t allowed in this class until theyve showed some responcibility by training their dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> All the other classes don`t allow big labs. They say he wouldn`t fit in their equipment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just called a local agility trainer, and when I told him my dog was previously trained in Schutzhund, receiving a SchI before he joined our family, the trainer said "great!" and that he really looked forward to working with us. The previous Schutzhund training didn't faze him a bit.

He also said he teaches small classes only -up to 5 dogs. So, it sounds like it might just depend on the agility trainer. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

I always find it interesting people who freak out about Schutzhund only seem to remember the protection component -the obedience and tracking never seem to come to mind.

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I always find it interesting people who freak out about Schutzhund only seem to remember the protection component -the obedience and tracking never seem to come to mind

I agree!
...but in defense of all the uneducated masses, when was the last time a sch trainer started a conversation that only concerned OB and tracking?

The Protection phase seems to be the one sch trainers care most about and the other two are seen as necessary adjuncts to the title, at least with the club I train!

...and of course the word itself translates to "protection dog".