Puppy or titled dog?
#72643 - 04/15/2005 08:05 PM |
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I was reading a few articles under working line German Shepherds and I came up with a question. I am new to schutzhund. Would it be better for a person like myself to buy a young titled (or ready for sch. title) dog or get a puppy? Would I learn how to train a dog in schutzhund better if I had a dog that already knew what was going on? I would appreciate any advice and help.
Thank you,
Curtis
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#72644 - 04/15/2005 08:25 PM |
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I've been going through the same question in my mind for a while and I decided on a puppy. First I have access to two quality Schh clubs that will help me along the way. So I decided that I would rather learn the entire process along the way and grow with the dog. If I chose a dog ready for competition already, what am I really learning? Learn some commands, but not really understand the dogs learning process.
So I chose a puppy over a started dog. I guess in a couple of years I let you know if it was the right choice.
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Jeffrey Mincy ]
#72645 - 04/15/2005 08:28 PM |
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Well that's a tricky question. Most everyone will tell you that you will ruin your first dog. I started off with a sch3 female and learned alot from her. Pups you will learn their ins and outs from the get go. Getting a titled dog, you don't know how that dog was trained, how many trainers they went thru and unfortunately, some don't really even know schutzhund! If you are going to get a titled dog, you'd better get it thru someone you trust and know.
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#72646 - 04/16/2005 12:07 AM |
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I'm taking a detour, bought a Border Collie puppy to practice the basics on, because I was going to get one anyway and they're pretty cheap...so at least I have SOME idea of what I'm doing when I get my real prospect next year or the year after that. This way instead of training the dog I train myself to make the dog respond...
And that's my reason for giving in to my desires to have a Border Collie instead of patiently waiting for my Mal.
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Kay Solano ]
#72647 - 04/16/2005 08:44 AM |
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I haven't heard it said that you will ruin your first dog. Is this due to all the mistakes the new trainer makes while learning "the ropes" of schutzhund training? I have known people that took their first dog up to Sch 3, but this is probably due to a good training club with lots of help and advice for new trainers. Shouldn't a good club help minimize "new trainer" errors? Is it possible to tell in puppies, which one out of a litter will be a forgiving dog? Would this forgiveness test be right after the pain threshold test, in which you see how the pup reacts to you after you have inflicted pain? As a new trainer with my first dog to train in schutzhund, I would want to request a pup that will be a forgiving dog, correct?
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#72648 - 04/16/2005 09:43 AM |
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If you are an intelligent person, and have great common sense, and some decent trainers around you, that you train with, you can have a great first dog, However, your second and third will probably be greater and excellent. It's not said that you will absolutely screw up a dog beyond competition just because it's your first dog. If you study hard, and train everyday you will learn how to apply stuff, I'd say the biggest thing about your first dog is that you'll have to go back and correct some things later on, but if you have a good training partner and common sense those problems shouldn't be anything out of reach of correcting. I would get a puppy first, one that is projected to be very hard and learn off of it, the only way your going to learn is to do it yourself, not to mention the self reward you'll get when you begin to title a dog that you yourself raised and trained. Anyone can buy a half trained or titled dog, but not everyone can train one, I don't see what pleasure there is competing with a dog that you had nothing to do with training, to me that defeats the purpose of even being in the dog sport world. For me it's about putting to test all of my hard worked hours and days and see my team's (my dog and myself) accomplishments. JMO
COL Nathan R. Jessup for President |
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Chris Duhon ]
#72649 - 04/16/2005 10:12 AM |
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Thank you Chris for your input. I agree with what you. I am sure it is a much better feeling titling your own dog that you trained, instead of a dog someone else did all the work on. There wouldn't be much joy in that. I appreciate it. You said get a hard dog. Does this hardness make a dog a forgiving dog? If a dog is a hard dog, does this mean he will challenge his handler often?
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#72650 - 04/16/2005 10:29 AM |
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This could also be a topic for debate. I have seen new handlers have great success with hard dogs as their first, and actually seen new handlers mess up less harder dogs, and the dogs not recover fully. Now that could be the dog or the handler or partly both, I honestly don't know. However, I have seen new trainers doing better on harder dogs, probably because it's alot harder for the new trainer to take the dogs out of drive, thus the dog tends to be more forgiving. Others will say for your first dog don't get a hard one, Because the dog will probably run all over the handler, I'm not sure but what I have said is my conclusion based upon my observations. I would go with a hard dog, but remember it will bring about other issues when you have a dog that is determined to do what he wants to do, and will most likely challenge you often. Like I said this is probably a topic for further debate, see what others say and try and see what others experiences have been, I am only one person, who can base my opinion soley on what I have seen. Hope this helps some.
COL Nathan R. Jessup for President |
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#72651 - 04/16/2005 11:38 AM |
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Re: Puppy or titled dog?
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#72652 - 04/16/2005 03:39 PM |
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If you train with a decent club you should be ok. I found that if a training "method" seems a bit silly or even crazy to you don't go with it. Train so that you minimize the amount of mistakes the dog and yourself can make. If you screw up call it a day, or even if the dog is screwing up call it a day. not little mistakes, big train wreck mistakes is what I am talking about. Don't be afraid to stop and re-evaluate to see whats up. take your time before advancing, better to go a bit slow than rush no matter how good the dog is doing. proof proof and then go to the next level. Learning with your dog is what the whole deal is about. it's the buddy system. and please, laugh when you screw the thing up, it helps, trust me I laugh alot!!!
I am smarter than my dog, your just not. |
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