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Snapping whip
#839 - 03/13/2002 09:33 PM |
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Is it common to snap the whip to stimulate younger dogs in protection? What dives would this be stimulating? Hope this isn't a really dumb question. Thanks
Cathy, Chance, Jaden, Xara and angel Zoey snuggled deep inside my heart |
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#840 - 03/15/2002 01:50 PM |
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I will try a run at this one... I have a 6 mo old pup and I use the whip during drive excersizes and escape training. At this age I don't think it stimulates any drive myself at least in my dog, I use it to get him used to a loud report while in drive, whatever that may be. He stopped the first few times to see what I was doing, but after that he ignores the crack. Later on in defense training, like my other club members do is to aggitate him. Look threatning and loud.
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#841 - 03/17/2002 10:23 AM |
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Determining drives is very difficult without seeing it because it depends so much on presentation and mannerisms. But I think it is safe to say in your case prey.
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#842 - 03/17/2002 12:45 PM |
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I think the whole point to snap the whip in front of the dog is to build up his tolerance to sharp and loud sounds. So the dog pretty much zones it out after a while and focuses on the helper rather than the noise.
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#843 - 03/17/2002 11:40 PM |
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Like rottnvegas said if the dog isnt used to loud noises and flinches he won't even get his BH. I think a lot of people also use it to stimulate the dog and get him excited, kind of like "ok its go time." Later on it's used to put them into defense, but they are far from scared of the whip so it makes the transition easier, IMO.
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#844 - 03/18/2002 04:41 AM |
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The whip is used for different reasons, I think some people don't know why they are using it other then the guy they saw doing protection was using it, so they use it. The gun is used in OB, at least in SchH, so this can create a problem when the OB comes around.
As far as drives, it depends on the dogs character or the dogs make up. The whip could put a dog into defense or prey. Or, it could stimulate them in another way. Like Vince said, very hard to pin down to many things to take into consideration.
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jason wrote 03/18/2002 10:14 AM
Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#845 - 03/18/2002 10:14 AM |
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The whip is used to bring out defense, usually introduced during prey guarding. The whip is basically an arm extention that allows the helper to move faster than the dog can, (the whip cracks because the tip is breaking the sound barrier). The dog get's concerned when he realizes that this dude can move faster than he can. At some point, the dog's concern might be reinforced by getting a small taste of what the whip can do to him. The whip is a defensive training tool at heart and although it can be used for other purposes, I would only use it to fire up a dog in defense. There are plenty of tools to stimulate prey drive, the whip is not one of them in my opinion. I don't think it's something that you want your dog to get "used to" either. Keep it in the closet until your ready to have a very experienced somebody stress your dog into defense. Otherwise, the effectiveness of the tool may be diminished, and your dog will require more "stimulation" to put into defense later.
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#846 - 03/18/2002 01:04 PM |
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I disagree with the defense/whip idea and let me give you a good example why.
I was watching a local trainer in my area working with Security Company Dogs, using the whip to spark defense I agree it works great and gets them all fired up but in real life who has a whip? Even in Sch is there ever a whip? I would think, training a helper behavior to spark defense would be the way to go. I say this because when this Malagator started his heeling with the starter pistol, he hammered his handler when it went off, Dog hears crack, sounds like whip, must be defense training, bite nearest thing, handler. That idiot trainer told me "Yeah that dog is very driven"
O.K. :rolleyes:
I say take that whip out of your closet and start assocating it with calmness, start using behavior to invoke defense, even in the Bite training Puppies video Ed uses the whip with his little puppy for prey/report training!
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#847 - 03/18/2002 03:14 PM |
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What if the dog does not see the whip as defense?
You have to be able to read the dog and see what the whip does to the dog, which drives it evokes in the dog. Then use it accordingly. I do think the whip is over used by a lot of helpers. This goes back to being able to read the dog. If the whip evokes a drive that you don't want to be working the dog in why use the whip? But, some guys I have been around only seem to be able to move around and work a dog if they are cracking the shit out of a whip.
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Re: Snapping whip
[Re: Cathy Hayes ]
#848 - 03/18/2002 03:37 PM |
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I would have never guessed that this topic would lead to such confusion.
“So the dog pretty much zones it out after a while and focuses on the helper rather than the noise.”
Just the opposite when used for prey it is used as a trigger for prey drive.
“The whip could put a dog into defense or prey. Or, it could stimulate them in another way.”
Bingo. It is a tool that can be used in a variety of different ways. But the original question was how it is used in puppy bite training. In puppy training it is used to imprint and stimulate prey behavior.
“I would only use it to fire up a dog in defense. There are plenty of tools to stimulate prey drive, the whip is not one of them in my opinion.”
The whip is one of the helpers primary tools used to stimulate prey.
“…agree it works great and gets them all fired up but in real life who has a whip?”
Very good point and one that is viewed by many police and personal protection trainers.
Good thread guys.
Ps. Glad to hear from you Jason.
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