A couple of questions popped up as I have been considering getting an Ecollar for off lead work.

How do the dogs respond to a command/stim by someone else when their primary Ecollar training comes their handler?

Do they immediately respond to the command or do they hesitate and take the "wait and see if I get a stim attitude"?

I'm specifically thinking of my wife here when, let's say, I'm at work and she has the dog out in the yard.

Does she have to take him through all the Ecollar training steps as well to ensure that he heeds her voice off leash as well as mine? Or will he still respond to the command given that I would have taken him through the training steps?

..okay, that was three questions!

Our 9 mth old GSD has no problems on lead and is getting to the reliable point off. By that I mean, if there is a distraction he will look at it (at this point, you'll see him thinking "hmmm, should I or shouldn't I) and then he'll recall. So far, I'm confident in him returning. My concern is that one distraction that we haven't met yet off lead that will make him bolt and thus the consideration of the Ecollar.

Kurt

My husky will listen to just about anyone who has the My husky will listen to just about anyone who has the remote, as soon as she knows they have the remote. That being said your wife should do some basic obedience with the dog and e-collar, she shouldn't need to do too much (assuming you are putting in the time to reach your goals) just 15-20 min a couple times a week.
I've just decided to start with an e-collar with my GSD he's 17 months and while reliable once under command he is starting to blow off a recall from free, I want to nip that in the bud before it develops into a problem. It's pretty common for an adolescent dog to test its handler; I see the e-collar as an essential tool for proofing. Take to time to read up on the proper use of the collar. Look at Lou Castle's posts and website as a good starting place.

Thanks Jason,

I tend to agree that our fella would need some "pre-conditioning", if you will, to mind my wife when she gives an off lead command.

BTW, I've read through this forum as well as Lou's site a few times now and am starting to get the idea of the theory behind the Ecollar and the proper use of same.

So far what I've read on the Ecollar has me interested. I would definitely follow those that feel that the low setting is the way to go and not just zapping the crap out of your dog. I can see how the theory works as far as "guiding" the dog toward the proper behaviour.

Jason-I think if your dog responds to "whoever has the remote" is a problem in itself.


Kurt-Your wife needs to do obedience work with your dog, that will establish rank, then your dog will listen to her and follow her commands.

The e-collar and its training have little to do with anything regards to "whom" the dog listens too. You don't want a dog that only responds or respect the person holding the remote. You want your dog to listen to you and your wife. Have her do some work with the dog in your presence so the dog knows, even when you are there, he is to listen to her as well.

Your wife will probably have to administer a correction too, so the dog knows there are consequences for not listening to her, I'd put the remote away for a bit and do some good old leash and collar training.

Personal comment; my wife can control both of our dog, this is good because I'm not always home. She has done obedience work with both dogs and they both respect what she says, even if I'm here. We don't do things like "lets see who he really will listen to" because you're only setting your dog up for confusion. Distract your dog other ways, but keep it clear that he has to listen to your wife as equally he does you.

My lab will listen to anyone as long as he's not breaking a command. So if I have him heeling and someone say "COME HERE RAMSEY!" he will not listen, as soon as I release him "break" he'll run over to the person and do whatever they want.
My GSD takes it offensively when someone other than me or my wife gives him a command, I don't really know why, but I kinda like that. He won't even work for a treat, if you throw the treat to him, he'll just let it hit him, it's weird.

Michael,

Thanks for your input. We aren't quite at the Ecollar stage yet, though. I have just been doing the research, so to speak, to see if that's the route I would like to follow next.

As far as the OB goes, we are still using a leash and a prong. Our guy does listen to my wife albeit a little more hesitantly than he does me as I do most of the work with him. He listens but somewhat reluctantly!!

I have had discussions with my wife advising her that she does need to do a bit more work with him in order to get him to respond to her a little quicker.

As far as a dog knowing who has the remote, if I'm not mistaken and as I'm still in the learning phase about ecollars I very well could be, I thought that, by using the ecollar, one of the goals was to lessen the conflict with the dog, as opposed to the leash and collar method, and have him unaware of where, or who, the correction was coming from??

In that respect, I would think that not knowing who has the remote would be better, as far as overall training and conflict goes, than knowing who has it.

An example would be me holding the remote and my wife issuing a command. In this way, the dog does not see a remote on my wife but gets a command from her. If he fails to obey, he gets the stim from me. Of course, the remote would not be visible to him and, in that way, he would be more apt to obey whether someone has a remote or not.

Kurt

YES, you are correct. You do NOT want the do to establish a corelation between the remote and the correction.

 Quote:

Jason-I think if your dog responds to "whoever has the remote" is a problem in itself

I don't see this as a problem, she is a pet and has not been trained for command rejection, and she will listen and respond to me irregardless of who has the remote. A smart dog is bound to make the connection between blowing off a command, getting a correction and the person who gave the command.

So for those of you that do use the ecollar, has anyone noticed if their dogs have made the association between the remote and the correction??

I mean a leash/collar combo is one thing as it can be seen as well as felt etc.

I would be interested to know if your dog has figured out that the remote is the source of the correction?

Many dogs will make an association between the presence of the TX (the transmitter) and the correction. But every time I've seen it happen it's because the handler/trainer made a show about pressing the button or the dog saw the handler pick up the TX and immediately press the button. This is not something that's inherent in the tool, it's a training fault due to poor work by whoever is doing the training.

You can make such an association easily if you wanted to with any object, even something as benign as a bandanna. Let the dog see you pick up a bandanna three or four times at the same instant that you press the button and the association will be made. This is especially a problem if you're using high levels of stim but it can also occur with low stim use.

If it occurs the association can become a problem. The dog will quickly learn to perform only when he sees the TX present. To prevent if from happening, don't make a show of pressing the button. I've seen some people who raise their hand over their head and then lower it several feet as they press the button. I've seen people who move their hand through an arc about a foot long as they press the button. I've seen people who catch their dog doing the wrong thing, curse as they move towards the TX, then pick it up, point it at the dog (as we tend to do with our car alarms) and press the button.

Keep the button pressing low key. Don't make a show of it. Some people have had success by putting the TX in their pocket, but if you have a larger unit, that can be difficult. Try putting it in the "other" hand. Try keeping it behind you. Make it a point NOT to move your hand when you press the button.

Remember that dogs are experts at reading body language and they'll pick up on things that we aren't even aware that we're doing.

I generally stim while holding the zapper behind my back, as if I'm handcuffed.

I have noticed that over the years if I become stern with the dog and place my hands behind my back while standing more erect, the dog expertly obeys me.

I'm sure there is an associate built there, but it's not with the transmitter. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />