Good morning everyone. It's my first post here and I'm looking forward to learning from everyone's experience. I have taken the time to read the rules for this forum and have attempted to "search" for the answer to include reading the excellent training article on "How to Fit a Prong Collar". (I did learn how to put these collars on and off without poking out my dogs eye! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )Anyway, if the answer is already posted out there, pls paste the link and I'll read about it. If not, here is my question:

What, physically, is the prong/pinch collar designed to do?
I have tried all different types of collars before successfully training my dogs to walk by my side without pulling utilizing the prong collar; however, I don't place mine where the article states you should (although I've tried it numerous times). I'll tell you why. From what I've learned, this collar is also referred to as a "pinch" collar. To accomplish this, I always figured there had to be enough play in the leash for the prongs to actually move... When I have the collar tight to the kneck, besides sliding down unless I have it very tight (Great Danes), it not only appears to make my dogs very uncomfortable but the functioning of it is my major question. I don't think it can pinch being that tight.

Thoughts?

Thank you,
Aaron

It will work.

But if you have to give more serious correction AND have it that tight you could get prong flying back to your head. Not to say it is very embaressing and what it does to your training when you are not able to correct your dog because collar popped open...

I almost went to dutch style prong because of this... Now i put my leather collar high on dogs neck (this makes him choke much less) and prong somewhat slack under it. It works allso.

Thank you for the response. I'd almost have to say your collar must have popped open b/c it wasn't closed all the way or there is something wrong. I don't see any way a prong collar could just pop open if everything is working right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I just don't think that's the appropriate position for a prong collar...up high. Yes, for a gentle leader, choke collar, etc.; however, I can't imagine it pinching when it has no room to move.

I was always told it represented a big dog biting a smaller dog and trying to teach it manners?! There really isn't much literature out there that I can find...

I have had a properly-fitted prong collar come adrift, so now I have fitted a 'safety link' to the flat collar.

It happened when the dog was sitting while I chatted with a friend.
Another dog came along and ours started getting restless, so I gave the lead a little tweak, just to say "Cut it out!"
I s'pose because there was no tension on the collar it must have got into an 'unusual position' which resulted in its popping a link.

(The owner of the other dog, a small poodle/Bichon type went absolutely hysterical seeing our large Mal x bitch bearing-down on her little treasure! No serious damage done, but a lesson learnt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Hi, I live in the UK where prong collars are banned, and without meaning any disrespect to anyone on here, I honestly wonder why people use them and think they are a valuable training tool? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Surely a Halti / canny collar (which fits around the nose, stopping any dog from pulling as it causes their mouth to close until they stop the pulling) is at least as effective, and much more humane? I am genuinely interested in what people have to say about these collars, as I personally think they look like some sort of torture instrument - obviously they are designed to cause some pain to the dog. Thanks in advance, Simone.


Ed's edit into this post:

Simone - to use your words. YES YOU ARE CONFUSED !! Your country has some bizzar laws. Not prong collar - no remote trainers - no guns. What can I say other than GOD BLESS AMERICA !!

I suggest you spend some time educating yourself on my web site. Start with reading the article I wrote on THE THEORY OF CORRECTIONS IN DOG TRAINING. http://leerburg.com/corrections.htm You will learn something if you read this.

A Halty is not a training collar!! I would hate that any new trainers to the board would thiink otherwise. A training collar is an instrument that has the ability to give a correction - DIVERTING a dogs gaze is not a correction any more than putting a dominant dog in another room when it displays aggression is a correction.

The fact is a prong collar is one tool. It's not the perfect tool. It has it's place in the tool box, just like a remote trainer and a dominant dog collar and a flat collar. In my opinion the box is full when it comes to halties.

So Simone - look for your answers in the articles and archives of my web site. I will not allow a diatribe on the pros and cons of prong collars on my web site.

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Hi, I live in the UK where prong collars are banned, and without meaning any disrespect to anyone on here, I honestly wonder why people use them and think they are a valuable training tool? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Surely a Halti / canny collar (which fits around the nose, stopping any dog from pulling as it causes their mouth to close until they stop the pulling) is at least as effective, and much more humane? I am genuinely interested in what people have to say about these collars, as I personally think they look like some sort of torture instrument - obviously they are designed to cause some pain to the dog. Thanks in advance, Simone.

i'm shocked to read that the greatest dog lovers in the world, the british, are so ignorant about prong collars.

you can control a dog wearing a halti, but you can't *train* one. there is a difference.

there are three major drawbacks to the prong collar.

1. lots of people don't know how to use them correctly
2. people think they look like instruments of torture, so when you and your dog come down the trail, him in his prong collar, some people think it means he is vicious. a prong collar is NOT a spiked collar. it is not the mark of a "tough" dog.
3. they aren't allowed at AKC shows (more ignorance on the part of the AKC).

it is ignorant to say they are designed to cause pain to the dog. they are not, and they do not. in fact, they are much safer than the more socially acceptable chain link choke collar, and much more effective as a training tool.

the prong collar is designed so that the prongs (which are not sharp) can only press a short distance into the neck of the dog. this mimics what a pack leader or mother might do to reprimand a pup. it's a reprimand, but it does not hurt any more than pinching the dog's neck scruff with your fingers.

a choke collar, otoh, can be tightened indefinitely, and can do serious harm to the dog. yet the akc and great britain (i presume) permit choke collars. go figure. there's appearance favored over substance for you.

Read me edited in comments on Simones's post.

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in the UK where prong collars are banned

I did a little digging and found out that not everyone in the UK agrees with Simone. Ecollars are availible. Also they modified the "Martingale" collar by putting in hard plastic tines on the inside of the collar, From the outside it appears as a regular flat collar. We shouldn't forget this is the country that produced Winston Churchill, Margret Thatcher, and the grouse and duck hunting Queen Elizabeth. any many more of true grit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree totally with Alice. Being originally from the UK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Its true in the sence that while growing up there I never ever saw anyone walk a dog with a prong. I use a prong and as Alice said

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it is ignorant to say they are designed to cause pain to the dog. they are not, and they do not. in fact, they are much safer than the more socially acceptable chain link choke collar, and much more effective as a training tool.

.If they were an instrument of torture they would have been banned worldwide by now.

I have heard of the neck injuries that some dogs have recieved from halti's/gentle leaders. Owners pulling the dogs head using them as a correction tool. What damage is caused then to the neck everytime the leash is janked connected to these? There is a great difference between all these attributes and the problem is that very often they are used in the wrong way. So here is a brit .....well ex-brit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> that does use a prong collar. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I thank everyone for their comments - as previously stated I do not wish to cause offence or disrespect. I simply find it fascinating how in one country something can be accepted and widely available, and in another completely the opposite. There are people in the UK who buy these collars online, but these are confiscated and destroyed by the RSPCA. As someone said above, people in the UK do get round this law by buying modified collars.
I myself own 2 boxers, and recently on our forum we discussed these collars - not one person on that forum advocated the use of the prong collar. However, each to their own, and I understand how people would see that they do in fact help in training their dogs.
Once again I thank everyone for their comments, I do find this genuinely interesting.