This reminds me of our Collie/Lab of years ago. He was a yard perimeter marker which was fine, it kept the cats away.

But he would pee on our sliding glass door every time we went out.

I could NEVER catch him in the act!!

So just to make sure none of our other dogs did it, I would feed them right by the sliding door on the walkway.

Of course none of our other dogs were the yard markers he was. Sigh...

 Quote: Carol Blumlein

This reminds me of our Collie/Lab of years ago. He was a yard perimeter marker which was fine, it kept the cats away.

But he would pee on our sliding glass door every time we went out.

I could NEVER catch him in the act!!

So just to make sure none of our other dogs did it, I would feed them right by the sliding door on the walkway.

Of course none of our other dogs were the yard markers he was. Sigh...

"But he would pee on our sliding glass door every time we went out."

From the outside? Or the inside?

If it was from the outside, maybe he marked other parts of the house, too, but this was the one that was noticeable to the humans?

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

A lot like zipping the dog outside instantly when she squats and then praising for good "outside potty" ..... not finding a puddle and punishing the completely mystified dog, who learns only that something about a puddle triggers bad things, or maybe even just that sometimes the owner is angry and punishes for no known reason at all.

So Bob, you're saying that catching the move to get up onto the couch is most important, right?

Even that finding the dog already on the couch is simply the result of handler error (lack of managing) and needs just removal and not correcting .... with the focus to be on the move onto the couch?

Yes, Yes and Yes! The puppy peeing on the floor is another perfect example. There is no connection in the dog's mind to the puddle being there and actually putting it there.
People see that "guilty" look from the dog when it's caught on the couch but there is no connection in the dog's mind to actually getting on it so just remove it and move on.
Like the peeing pupy the trash can trasher and the couch potato it's all about avoiding the problem.
dogs training is easy. Breaking bad habits sucks!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

A lot like zipping the dog outside instantly when she squats and then praising for good "outside potty" ..... not finding a puddle and punishing the completely mystified dog, who learns only that something about a puddle triggers bad things, or maybe even just that sometimes the owner is angry and punishes for no known reason at all.

So Bob, you're saying that catching the move to get up onto the couch is most important, right?

Even that finding the dog already on the couch is simply the result of handler error (lack of managing) and needs just removal and not correcting .... with the focus to be on the move onto the couch?

Yes, Yes and Yes! The puppy peeing on the floor is another perfect example. There is no connection in the dog's mind to the puddle being there and actually putting it there.
People see that "guilty" look from the dog when it's caught on the couch but there is no connection in the dog's mind to actually getting on it so just remove it and move on.
Like the peeing pupy the trash can trasher and the couch potato it's all about avoiding the problem.
dogs training is easy. Breaking bad habits sucks!

"From the outside? Or the inside?"

Connie, from the outside.

He was well house trained.

Right maybe it was just part of what he considered the perimeter. But it was a PAIN!!! And funny he marked everywhere else in the yard while we were home but not there??!!

So I'm not sure if I understand all of the above posts and if what I do will have results.

When I am there, Ziva would jump on the couch and she gets down when I say, "get down", I mark it each time she does it on her own....then, in my opinion, it becomes a way to get treats....Can I be wrong?....When she persists showing signs of wanting to get on, I say "NOOO" ....I mark it when she keeps 4 on the floor......then she might try 3 other times and later go laydown on the floor. Willie and I have noticed that she uses the couch to communicate with me that she wants to play and interact with me.

How should I train her for not doing that and not even to get the idea to jump on the couch?

Of course, each time she gets enough time to get on it with her entire body is only a few seconds....the fact is she got on. We do not allow even for her to put her front paws on.....just her nose.....should that be prohibited also?

She does that mostly in the morning....So the first thing I do now when I get up while the coffee is brewing...I put 3 chairs on it. Annoying!!!

Other topic from the couch. We just retruned today from a 4 days at my husband cousin's domain. It was a cousins gathering that happens each year in August. We were the first to arrive out of 15 guests. I was happy because I knew it would make my life easier to great each new comers after she got settled then coming being greeted by all of them at once.

While my husband and step-son got to the back of the house where the party took place, Ziva and I stayed in the front park to have her settle from the 2 1/2 hours car ride and sniff around and pee. One of our host came to us in the front and he did just beautifully staying a few feet away and me having Ziva in a sit. Then I came closer and she dropped to a down, crawled to him and waited for attention. Then we walked to the back of the house and she did the same with his wife, son and grandchild. It took 5 min for her to settled. I then replace the leash with the 6 feet line. We walked the land that is a little less than 1 hectar and all fenced in. Other guests came and she stayed with me a bit away and we waited till all the kisses, hugs and high pitch voices settled to make our way to them....she did the same, drop to a down and rolled on her back for a belly scratch.....at time she would try to jump but mostly more like hops to people that would talk to her in an exciting voice. But other then that she was good.

She kept the line on every time she was out of her crate....on day 2 they insisted that I leave her free that there was nothing for her to get into and that it is secure she could not get out. I took a big breath and thought that I might be doing a mistake but she was getting restless being teether to me and starting to have these little barks and bitting the line. So I thought to try it and keeping the line on her though. I thought if it is not working I will go back keeping the end of the line in hand.

She spent day 2 and day 3 roming on the property and being happy to stay in the back where we were even if the front park is much bigger than the back. I always had my eyes on her...she was happy playing ball with my step-son, playing with a stick by herself or throwing in the air the big nuts that she found on the ground.

She was not excited by the 3 horses on the other side of the fence.....she barked once at them when she first noticed them then after I went to her and showed her that all was well having them there she did not pay attention to them anymore. She was intrigued at first with the splash of the pool but not enough to bark and run around it. But showed real concern when my husband was in it.

On the evening of day 3 (yesterday) she saw the neighbor's chicken in the horses field close to the fence....she really got arroused by it and chased it....I was there with her less than a foot away but with the line on the ground. She reacted so darn quickly that I had no time to reach for the line....she ran till she got to the fence barking of course....then made the corner and came nose to the little cage where our cousins kept a chicken they found half dead 3 months ago. Ziva had not seen that chicken the entire time she investigated the property for the past 3 days.....of course....by the time I got there less than 15 sec. Ziva was already in the zone of not hearing my voice. I grabed the line took her away and she ended her stay being teethered to me or in her crate......

We walked the area's roads one hour every morning and evening. The first day I did not work her I simply expected her to walk nicely with no pulling on the leash and to sit on the stops at intersections. On the other walks though, I worked her with heel, sit, down and stand. She did good and had fewer and fewer reminders. The only distractions she could have had were deers that were in the field but I was the only one seeing them. The only time ( I ) was distracted was to look at beautiful properties and castles that were on our walk and vineyard vines. She waited till we go out to poo she did not drop one on our hosts' lawn.

I notice that her capacity to cap her drive is faster and faster. The fact of working on stay is also beneficial.

Now I have to work on recall more seriously and with more energy....she just doesn't come.

cheers!!

Solange, I have to leave for training, so this is short. Before I had even read as far as the chicken, this made my heart thud:

"She kept the line on every time she was out of her crate....on day 2 they insisted that I leave her free that there was nothing for her to get into "


Please please please -- do NOT allow anyone else to "insist" anything about your dog's management and control being loosened. This goes for all dogs, all owners.

If something happens, the dog is your responsibility. Not the other person's. The decisions must be yours alone, and not open to discussion.


"... by the time I got there less than 15 sec. Ziva was already in the zone of not hearing my voice."

This means that (1) she should not have been off-line, and (2) the recall was used when you had no way to back it up, and it was demonstrated to her as being optional.


JMO.

There is lots good in the post, of course! I know 'm focusing on the misjudgments, but that doesn't mean there was no good news.

Ditto what Connie said! Lots of good but your dog, your rules!
I will also say that there are very few things that can trigger a dogs prey drive like a squawking, flapping chicken.

I never really thought about it, but yeah ..... I can see that.