Ok, so I have been trying to get all the things I need to start my dog on raw. Not as easy as I thought. And my dog weighs 110 lbs at 11 mo. If I'm calculating right, the amount you feed goes off his adult ideal body weight. This would probably be around 115-120 I'm guessing? At this weight, 2% of his body weight would be 2.3 lbs of meat a day, and 3% would be 3.6 lbs of meat a day! I can already feel myself going broke....

Someone tell me if I have this right.

Should I shoot for 3 lbs a day? Also, I am having trouble getting chicken backs. I can get whole chickens (.99/lb) or leg/thigh quarters (.69/lb). If I buy the whole chickens would it be OK to remove some of the breast meat so we can all eat, and the humans don't have to starve while the dog lives in luxery? Or will this throw off the bone to meat ratio?

Thanks.

Your math is correct. That is a good place to start, and then you can adjust from there. Turbo eats about 6 to 7%. Praise the lord he only weighs 14 lbs.

By all means take what ever meat you want. In the long run it won't mess up anything at all.

Look for sales, buy in bulk, talk to hunters, get on freecycle. You'll find better sources all the time. Some of the meat that butchers usually cut up might be cheaper if you ask for it before it is cut up. I would still try to find a source of backs though. They are very cheap.

Don't be scared. You'll find ways to make it affordable. Eventually it will be comparable or cheaper than what you feed now. Promise.

 Quote: michael_wise

By all means take what ever meat you want. In the long run it won't mess up anything at all. ... Don't be scared. You'll find ways to make it affordable. Eventually it will be comparable or cheaper than what you feed now. Promise.

Ditto! If you buy whole poultry and take breast meat off for family dinners, it's works out pretty well. You'll get breast meat for whole-bird prices, and the dog will get tons of great dog-stuff.

I remember you saying you hadn't found backs and necks, right?

I'd call around to the butcher departments of supermarkets, ethnic groceries, and restaurant suppliers, and ask about pre-ordering cases of frozen backs (or backs and necks).

I'd ask in person any place where you shop enough for them to know you, too.... they want to keep customers.

Stuff they don't always have in the case is often still order-able, especially in large frozen amounts, and especially on their schedule.

Don't forget that the organ meat is often 69 cents (like chicken livers), and that the muscle meat that you add to the RMBs can also be very cheap..... like frozen 5-pound ground beef packages, and like scraps of fish that the wharf-guys toss into buckets as they cut fillets and steaks. (What they call "cat food" here is just small raggedy unattractive pieces off the different kinds of fish they are cutting up.) When I am buying "real" fish, they will often throw some of that in free, and even at full price it's about 50 cents.

I hear over and over that once you get started, even if you have to start with supermarket stuff at full price, as long as you speak up, you will find out about co-ops, farmers, hunters, small butchers, etc. And you will also find that your "real" butcher will sometimes have something for you for cheap (even free) if you can take it when he needs it taken..... and so on.

Also.... you might be near one of the raw co-ops....

Check around with small local grain fed farms, we have gotten in good with several and when they butcher a cow and have leftover not so great meat, or the tripe, or the heart, or a cow they butcher for personal use and dont care to eat the tough parts they will sell it for very cheap or in some cases say come and get it...i have been given several calf legs which make great recreational bones.

 Quote: Shody Lytle

Ok, so I have been trying to get all the things I need to start my dog on raw. Not as easy as I thought. And my dog weighs 110 lbs at 11 mo. If I'm calculating right, the amount you feed goes off his adult ideal body weight. This would probably be around 115-120 I'm guessing? At this weight, 2% of his body weight would be 2.3 lbs of meat a day, and 3% would be 3.6 lbs of meat a day! I can already feel myself going broke....

That is why mine currently eat kibble for breakfast, Nico weighs 115 and at 12 still has a terribly fast metabolism, Loki weighs 70 to 75 depending on the season and I cant keep weight on him, he borders on too thin all the time, so that is around 6 lbs of meat a day!!! without factoring in the growing constantly hungry pup, or the growing constantly hungry 6 yr old boy..who out eats me and sometimes my husband at dinner most nights.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I remember you saying you hadn't found backs and necks, right?

I'd call around to the butcher departments of supermarkets, ethnic groceries, and restaurant suppliers, and ask about pre-ordering cases of frozen backs (or backs and necks).

I'd ask in person any place where you shop enough for them to know you, too.... they want to keep customers.

Stuff they don't always have in the case is often still order-able, especially in large frozen amounts, and especially on their schedule.

Shody, this is what I do. Every supermarket in my area will order a case of frozen chicken backs and necks and it usually takes only a few days to get them in.

In the beginning I got a few raised eyebrows and a couple of questions about the soup kitchen I was running but it's been really easy and not too expensive. A case lasts my 80lb dog at least a month.

I have been doing some asking. So far the one store that I found that will order the backs wants .99/lb for backs & turkey necks. I forgot to ask about chicken necks. At that price I'll buy the whole chickens and we'll share. I still have a few places to call. I do have a lead on a guy who processes animals for people. A lot of deer during deer season, home raised livestock & stuff. I'm going to give him a call. Is there anything I shouldn't get for my dog if this pans out? Or what would be the best things to ask him for? Someone told me that there is a disease going around through the deer population here in Cal. that is a "wasting" disease. I don't know what it is, or what that means, but think I will call the fish & game Dept. and see if I can find out before I get any deer.

Thanks guys.

Connie mentioned co-ops. There is a large group that operates in SoCal and, I believe, distributes around your area:

http://socalbarf.com/

Yahoo has a ton of raw supplier boards, most of which you'll have to join to read. Here is one:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/BARF-SUPPLIERS-IN-CA/#ans

There is also this guy who may be near you:

http://crestonvalleymeats.com/shop_dogfood.html

Edited by Sarah Morris (01/17/2008 11:43 PM)
Edit reason: added another one

They were talking about chronic wasting disease. There is a thread right now about "downed" cows that mentions it.

Right now there is no proof that it is transmitted to canines or humans. Its just how comfortable you feel about it. I and alot of others feed deer. I would say that it is over 50% off my dogs diet.

I won't say that your dog cannot get CWD. I will say that he would be the first documented case EVER if it happened though.

I would ask around some more about the backs too. I can't remember the price off the top off my head, but you should be able to find better than that.

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no10/06-0019.htm

The second one is not about the risk to dogs, but it might help you weigh the risk.

I say "risk" even though I personally feel it is non-existant and feel COMPLETELY comfortable feeding wild deer to my familiy and my dogs.


As far as what to get. I think a deer processer is going to use darn near everything. When people clean one theirselves they usually leave the neck and rib cage. If he leaves those I would definately get them. Ribs aren't the meatiest meal in the world, but make for a complicated doggy task when left in big enough chunks. Necks would be gold if you can get them. Super meaty and also very engaging. Definately ask for the heads. Hearts would also be another good meat that would be leftover.

I'm sure I'll think of more later. Sleepy.