Submissive canids mouth others on the muzzle as a submissive display.
David Mech mentions the behavior repeatedly in his writing.

I have hesitated to post these thoughts with concern they might be misconstrued and in light of the fact that this dog had already been adopted by this couple. However, in hopes that this might be of benefit to someone else considering adopting or purchasing a dog, I think it is appropriate to consider the following:

If you might have to do without your own food in order to provide care for a pet, you can't afford a dog at this time.

If you would be unable to pay your rent or mortgage in order to provide for your pet, you can't afford a dog at this time.

If you would have to do without your own medical care in order to have a pet, you can't afford a dog at this time.

If you are receiving government assistance for your own food at a specific point in your life, that would not be a good time to adopt a dog. (This is NOT a comment on needing assistance; it is a comment on electing to bring in another mouth to feed AT THIS TIME).

A repetitive, underlying theme throughout this entire thread has been either not having had the financial resources to get professional help /evaluation or having had to do without some basic human needs in order to provide the basics for this dog. This is bad for BOTH the human and the canine. It is a lose-lose situation.

We all potentially face unexpected, extremely expensive situations throughout our lifetime with our dogs. Ideally, the responsible owner is doing their best to prepare in some way for those potential scenarios.

It is my opinion that none of what we've discussed with this particular situation is an "extreme" financial scenario for bringing an adult dog into the home, a dog which presented some challenging signals to the op during their first meeting.

Unfortunately, for both dog and owner, the financial situation played a huge role in the dog ultimately not getting a professional assessment and the owner being unable to get the training/assistance needed to have made this adoption successful.

Hopefully, this dog will be given to a rescue organization so that she can begin the process of finding the right home, and the current owners can begin to recover from a decision which had a significant negative impact on them financially.

I've just read THIRTEEN pages of confusion.
This dog is an accident waiting to happen. MAYBE with someone else something could be done with the dog.
I've heard great advice and a lot of "yes but".
You have to accept the fact that this dog isn't for you.
You don't want to turn it over to the pound or rescue because your afraid of what may happen to it. Some dogs do NEED to be put down. You don't know, though. You have to make up your mind that this may be the only solution for you "OR" you have to except the responsibility when this dog does serious damage to you or someone else.

I think it was great that you have searched the internet trying to find a way to make it work out.
I'm still hopeful that you may find Akita people who know ways to manage a dog who is hard to read and may be different from other dogs that you have owned.
I wish you luck in your efforts, and good for you for trying.

 Quote: anne jones

 Quote: maria martynchik

I don't mean we don't have money for evaluation. It is his rate for every session with a dog like that. 125 for evaluation, 125 for every working session. That was what he told me. I will try and contact others. Yes, we are extremely poor. We have to choose between our rent and her behaviour evaluations. We have money for vets, food, training classes. This is extra that we did not plan.


We are working on re-homing. IN the meantime we are walking her calmly in the muzzle.

I have been reading this thread but haven't posted on it until now.....

Then you say you have $$$ for vet, food & training...this dog's needs are extra? Training is training. It doesn't come cheap, no matter where you live. Use the $$$ set aside for training to have the dog evaluated & then go from there. If you actually want to keep the dog. Which I think that you are really looking for excuses to justify getting rid of it.

I will say I'm with Anne 100% on this. I, too, haven't said anything on this thread up til now. There are many, many more knowledgable people as to how to deal with this situation and a large number of them have offered you advice and suggestions from trainers to possible evaluators to rescue organizations. I believe Hillarie suggested a trainer that that I also highly recommended. I don't remember your reasoning for not contacting Darryl. Unfortunately, I've lost track of your reasons for not doing many things that have been suggested to you other than the "no $$", "being afraid of her", etc., etc.....

As Anne has said, you have $$ put aside for training, but what exactly are you saving it for???? Without having this dog evaluated to determine a course of action and whether or not it is even in the realm of being realistic for you to attempt to keep her. Without that evaluation I doubt very seriously that you will ever spend that money on any training. I just don't see it happening - IMO.

I also agree with Hillarie that the rates you have been quoted for the evaluation of this dog are extremely reasonable in my book.

I understand that you wanted a dog and felt you were doing a good thing by adopting this one, but you need to seriously take in to consideration your financial status when taking on any dog - puppy, rescue, whatever. No dog, young or old, is going to walk into your house as a perfect little animal, never have a problem either behavioral or medical that is never going to tax your bank account at some time. The only dog that might do that is a stuffed one.

I know this sounds harsh, and I apologize. But I sit here in bed and look at my two dogs - my 7 y/o rottie has a number of health problems which she didn't have at 8 weeks. They have all developed over time and require vet care and special food. Is this something you're prepared to deal with? If your dog developed epilepsy as mine did, will you be financially prepared for the ongoing lab work and medicine or would you have to let your dog go without and simply suffer from seizures? Again, I know this is very harsh, but it is the reality of owning a dog or dogs.

I'm fortunate enough that I have the ability to care for my dogs for just about anything that happens - including having my Malinois insured. That being said, I always know that there could be a major issue that may hit some day and then I'll be trying to figure out just what part of my life goes away in order to make sure my dog(s) are ok.

Again, is this something you have the ability or are prepared to do?

I truly hope you find this pup a new home. She deserves it and you need to get yourself situated before bringing another dog into your home so that this issues don't arise and put you under undue stress once again.

Several people on here have already said that our concern on this forum is for the dog...and I'm going to reiterate that once again. You've asked for help and many have offered. Now it's time for you to make a decision once and for all about what you're going to do for this dog and get it's life settled once and for all.

 Quote: bob scott

I've just read THIRTEEN pages of confusion.

I've heard great advice and a lot of "yes but".

Not even specifically about this disaster of a thread, but we get a lot of that.

1. Question/problem.

2. Experienced answer/solution.

3. "Yes but."

Resolution? None.

Explains a lot about why some of the most experienced and knowledgeable often hesitate to stick with a "waffle" thread. They do it, when they can stand to do it, because of the dog.

And back on the track of helping:

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

I think it was great that you have searched the internet trying to find a way to make it work out.
I'm still hopeful that you may find Akita people who know ways to manage a dog who is hard to read and may be different from other dogs that you have owned.
I wish you luck in your efforts, and good for you for trying.

http://akita.rescueshelter.com/California

http://www.tikihutakitarescue.com/home.cfm

http://www.akitarescue.com/

Many of these orgs have devoted a lot of time to helping people keep their Akitas. IMO, this Akita is in the wrong home, period, no matter how it came about. A dog who the owners hate and/or are afraid of is a deal breaker. If I were the O.P., I would not let myself become convinced by anyone of the possibility of starting over; it isn't going to happen and it's going to prolong and worsen a bad situation. JMO, after re-reading all thirteen pages yesterday.

I would probably try to get the best eval I could and start calling rescues with that in my hand.

 Quote: Bob Scott

I've just read THIRTEEN pages of confusion.

Yep. And many more pages of confusion elsewhere on the internet.

Reading Aarons post I went back and read the whole thread. He is absolutely correct that the dog was taught this behavior with the alpha rolling. The OP even realizes it.

This has been a long, confusing thread of stubborness and answer shopping.

The OP came here looking for better advice than what she was getting, and at the same time was going back to the Akita forum to reaffirm her notions of the dog being dominant and dangerous. She has been giving a different picture to different people all along. Hence the inconsitency.

This poor dog has been subjected to alpha rolls, the OP mistakenly (as many people do) takes the submissive posture as a good thing. Its not a good kind of submission. Its a dog who thinks you are about to kill her. A truly defensive, dominant animal would have put her in the hospital on the first attempt.

It was done enough to put it on cue! Thats crazy!

Then the dog was put through the pack stucture program, but at times this was used in a mildly abusive way. Understandably a mistake at first, but then when explained the OP continued with it.

Along with completely inconsistent obedience training.

I don't know about you guys, but if my dog had this experience in life she would be *extremely* dangerous to live with. Far more dangerous than this dog.

Its all a recipe for a neurotic animal for sure.

If this dog is actually dangerous (and I still don't think she is) she has been made this way by people. First by the original owners and now by this family.

She is understandably confused, has no idea what to expect from people and now has learned to cope by rolling on her back. That is sad.

Maria, if you decide to put this dog down without first exploring every available option, you better be there to look her in the eye as it happens.

You owe her a professional evaluation because of your mistakes. Killing her without giving her this last chance is inexcusable.

 Quote: connie sutherland

http://akita.rescueshelter.com/California

http://www.tikihutakitarescue.com/home.cfm

http://www.akitarescue.com/

Many of these orgs have devoted a lot of time to helping people keep their Akitas. IMO, this Akita is in the wrong home, period, no matter how it came about. A dog who the owners hate and/or are afraid of is a deal breaker. If I were the O.P., I would not let myself become convinced by anyone of the possibility of starting over; it isn't going to happen and it's going to prolong and worsen a bad situation. JMO, after re-reading all thirteen pages yesterday.

I would probably try to get the best eval I could and start calling rescues with that in my hand.

Yup. I just read through the whole thread and kept thinking "A person cannot effectively work with and train a dog that they are afraid of". From what I understood, all the behavioral issues started popping up after the owner started becoming fearful of the breed and it just spiraled downhill form there.

I see only two viable options for this dog - eval and turn her over to rescue, or euthanize. It's not fair to her to go on living life in this state.

 Quote: Lauren Jeffery

You owe her a professional evaluation because of your mistakes. Killing her without giving her this last chance is inexcusable.

I could not agree more with Lauren's entire post, as well as everything Randy and Aaron have also said in this thread.
The very best thing for this dog, is exactly as Lauren said here so succinctly.

Maria, please let us know what your plans are now for the dog.
Please don't take offense, but know we all want what is best for this dog.