Lol, I don't find you argumentive Tracey, and no one needs to ask to reply to something.

When you take your dogs in public, which I always do, theres a responsibilty that comes with it. People with dogs and without dogs have a right to expect your dogs to be safe. Andrews dogs probably have decent temperaments. They are not completely indifferent to everything around them and they react the way they want when they want to.

I don't watch a lot of Cesar's shows, but I don't remember him ever making the point you should be able to take a pack of dogs anywhere? And thats a big part of the point, not that Andrew has too many dogs, just what he thinks is ok to do with them all at once.

How old were your kids when you took them and the dogs to that event? Old enough to assist you? Dogs on leash? Why wouldnt you do it now?

As far as dogs being trained well enough to ignore other dogs, sure. But every dog you add makes that more difficult, and then when they've already been conditioned to run in a pack, like Andrews, all it takes is some small trigger for a disaster.

Well the kids were 19 and 23 so not babies!

I wouldn't do it now because my big boy is such a baby still at 3 years old, but 10 stone so I have to have him hanging off my every word and paying attention at all times, I just don't think he is predictable enough at the moment to take chances!

There was one episode of Dog Whisperer that stuck in my memory where a pair of sisters found 2 stray Rotts as youngsters, and as they grew became a real handful, he wanted for them to be able to take them to the beach, and be confident they would listen and behave, it seemed to be a successful outcome, but of course, that could be down to editing

I do accept what you are saying, it is obviously a no brainier for the majority of situations, I just wondered if it was something that could be doable

 Quote: tracey holden

.... I do accept what you are saying, it is obviously a no brainer for the majority of situations, I just wondered if it was something that could be doable

That’s a good question.


"I just wondered if it was something that could be doable"

Not by me. Not alone.



My personal list of requirements before I'd call it doable would start with great obedience training and an excellent ability to read dogs.

Not either or, but both.

There's more, but both of these (numbers one and two, in my book) are absent in these clips.


This is no small factor:

"As far as dogs being trained well enough to ignore other dogs, sure. But every dog you add makes that more difficult, and then when they've already been conditioned to run in a pack, like Andrews, all it takes is some small trigger for a disaster."

Thats 3 adults managing 3 dogs Tracey.Two adults with 2 dogs going to the beach. I've taken my Rott through the lines at Disneyland. I wouldnt have done it with 4 of them by myself. No matter how well trained, things happen. I'm not so arrogant to think I could control them if something happened.

That's a better answer than mine.

I should have included the handlers-to-dogs ratio in my list of top requirements.



The public gets no advance vote; people with a kid or a dog don't get to vote about whether my pack of four big dogs (who "are not completely indifferent to everything around them and ... react the way they want when they want") is "doable." It's my responsibility, and I have a hard time imagining trying to satisfy my mental checklist to the point where I'd consider it doable.

JMO!

Whether or not it is doable would start with evaluating the capabilty of the handler to decipher his dogs' body language and that of other dogs they interact with, and to view those interactions objectively.
I don't know if you've watched the clips, but the OP demonstrates a lack of ability to recognize stress in dogs, and lets his dogs enforce pack structure as THEY see fit.

When we tried to coach him on this to HELP him, he started with the smokescreen.

IMO, it is not doable if the owner/handler is not on his/her game.

We had an absolutely wonderful day's outing yesterday with 4 large dogs. I guess for the sake of this current discussion "We" would be an optimal word here.

The first 3 1/2 hours was on a fairly secluded mountain trail (3 separate horseback riders - one with a heeler, logging equipment being brought in and a group of young folks drinking beer).

There was plenty of opportunity for the boys to demonstrate their obedience and indifferent responses and more importantly, "our" leadership.

I could go into more detail about each of these interactions and our overall pack walk training but it's not about me and Andrew doesn't seem overly interested in this part of this discussion.

But when we got home, we got a call to meet some friends at our beach. The two seniors were tired so I got them settled and we headed out with the two big boys.

Screaming, active children, boats, people coming and going and an unruly Papillon (oh but it was so cute and it just wanted to play - NOT).

I couldn't have been prouder of my boys. It's not their job nor would I allow them to teach someone else's dog manners. I headed out to a quiet spot, with the two heeling calmly by my side. Vince and I played some fetch in the water while Echo checked out the river bank. I think the Pap's owner got the message, her dog was leashed when I got back.

If Andrew and his 4 unleashed mastiffs would have entered that picture, bouncing around and wanting to come up and meet my dogs, I would have been furious. I'm also sure Bob would have stepped in and set him straight on few things if there wasn't full and absolute control of each of those dogs, regardless of temperament.

Just the picture alone is overwhelming, let alone the actual "proper" handling, by one person, should something unforeseen happen.

Not something I want to see in my neighborhood.

 Quote: Duane Hull

Whether or not it is doable would start with evaluating the capabilty of the handler to decipher his dogs' body language and that of other dogs they interact with, and to view those interactions objectively.
I don't know if you've watched the clips, but the OP demonstrates a lack of ability to recognize stress in dogs, and lets his dogs enforce pack structure as THEY see fit.

When we tried to coach him on this to HELP him, he started with the smokescreen.

IMO, it is not doable if the owner/handler is not on his/her game.

What I think Duane, is that reading body language completely misses the entire point and is a large part of why I find Andrews attitude so arrogant. I don't care if you could line them all up and study the circumference of their sphincters in relation to the approach of an Italian Greyhound. You can stop Sadie from being an ass, you're not going to prevent 4 Sadies from being ass's if thats the direction things are going to go.

And I'm with CJ, I don't want them in my neighborhood either.

CJ- maybe this is for another thread, but I always learn something from your posts. Could you post a bit more details about your outing? I think we could all (even Andrew?) learn from this. I am always interested in learning new things regarding control of a 'pack' in public settings (especially remote settings).