 Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384017 - 10/10/2013 10:55 AM |
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can someone please answer this?
what's the theory behind the dog "knowing the command"?
is it that the same command at every new place is a new command? if so, then the dog never truly learns the command. 5 years from now i take him to a place he's never been to and tell him to SIT and he won't know what i want.
or is it that after a certain number of new places he learns that the command applies to all places? if so, then "how many new places does it take?"
Every dog is different. Some dogs may proof out a command in just a few venues, while other dogs seem like everywhere you go is a completely new issue. It really comes down to how well YOU can train and proof a behavior. The more venues you work in, the more comfortable your dog gets doing the work, and that helps to move the process along.
"Knowing a command" is the point of proofing. You will be able to tell when your dog gets it. Basically, if he sits every time, regardless of the circumstances, then you can say he knows the command. If I tell my dog to down, and she starts to then hesitates, it's not because she doesn't know the command, but that there is some sort of distraction or stress, and more desensitizing and proofing need to be done.
Sadie |
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384022 - 10/10/2013 11:56 AM |
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Yes, I agree with Duane on that.
Some of what we're discussing here is fascinating and useful information, but not all (such as the protocol of letting the dog do whatever he wants to do at that point in time, including going to focus on a distraction, if he plays vigorously first) particularly appropriate for a case of a new trainer with her first dog, and the dog needs boundaries and basic obedience.
This is good stuff being discussed, but we're getting pretty far away from this dog. 
(I know that Ram knows this is not in any way a criticism of his work or research .... just an attempt to get back a little bit to this dog. )
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384024 - 10/10/2013 12:14 PM |
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I actually had an amazing short training session. I think it was the upbeat part that sunk in. ...
And none of these signs? "Sniffing, looking away, yawning, stretching, lip licking, etc," which of course, Ram is right, are common signs of stress.
I'd love to read a little more detail about this. 
What was the command?
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384027 - 10/10/2013 12:14 PM |
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I will reply to Ram later, useful stuff in there, even if I can't use it now.
I do the same commands for now, sit (with a word), down (with a lure) and come from a foot or two away while backing away from him (as you said).
So first I said 'ready?' All excited and he started wagging his tail and sat right away (that's his way of showing he's ready to work because sitting usually gets him treats)
And then I rotated the 3 commands above about 4 times each but upbeat. That makes a huge difference. I'm a mellow person and to him that translates to boring, I'm sure
It was so exciting and encouraging to see his demeanor. I was having a problem getting a foot away from him so I can say COME.
He was so excited and so willing to listen.
I once again saw that it's not the dog, it's me.
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384028 - 10/10/2013 12:18 PM |
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Isn't it a great thing when such small changes in ourselves yield such huge improvements in the training?
"So first I said 'ready?' All excited and he started wagging his tail ..."
I'm so glad you incorporated this "let's train!" signal. 
And always begin and end on a command you know he will succeed with .... quit while he wants more, not when you are both frustrated or tired. You want that "Ready?" always to trigger happy eagerness. This is becoming engagement.
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384029 - 10/10/2013 12:19 PM |
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Another thing I wanted to add. This again reminds me that I must be prepared before I go out.
I'm always in space, I'm one of those that zones out constantly. So unless I have a program in my head I will stand there with a blank head trying to remember what and how I should be training him.
This is my personal handicap. So I lay out my sessions before I train.
There were times when i'd start a session, have him sit and then stand there frozen trying to remember what else I can ask.
And of course, with any amount of pressure (the dog waiting for a command) my mind goes blank.
So now I try having a program laid out before I start, that includes planning games we will play, commands we will work on.
Otherwise inevitably I will end up standing there like a statue
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#384030 - 10/10/2013 12:21 PM |
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Isn't it a great thing when such small changes in ourselves yield such huge improvements in the training?
"So first I said 'ready?' All excited and he started wagging his tail ..."
I'm so glad you incorporated this "let's train!" signal.
And always begin and end on a command you know he will succeed with .... quit while he wants more, not when you are both frustrated or tired. You want that "Ready?" always to trigger happy eagerness. This is becoming engagement.
))))))))) yes, I can't believe I thought that wasn't necessary. It made such a huge difference even though he doesn't know the word.
Once again (as with the crate) I stick a foot in my mouth
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384031 - 10/10/2013 12:24 PM |
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Connie, question though.
We are outside for 2 hours and i'd like to keep it that way.
I'm having a problem keeping him engaged for 2 hours
1. Am I hurting anything anytime he loses focus and goes off to sniff, bark at some dog, chew some sticks?
2. What can I do to keep his focus for 2 hours. I'm running out of ideas
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384032 - 10/10/2013 12:31 PM |
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Another thing I wanted to add. This again reminds me that I must be prepared before I go out.
I'm always in space, I'm one of those that zones out constantly. So unless I have a program in my head I will stand there with a blank head trying to remember what and how I should be training him.
This is my personal handicap. So I lay out my sessions before I train.
There were times when i'd start a session, have him sit and then stand there frozen trying to remember what else I can ask.
And of course, with any amount of pressure (the dog waiting for a command) my mind goes blank.
So now I try having a program laid out before I start, that includes planning games we will play, commands we will work on.
Otherwise inevitably I will end up standing there like a statue
Yes, a little outline is great (as long as you don't write in exactly what you expect the results
to be ).
You can retain the upbeat spontaneity you need within a lightly structured plan. I certainly have a plan in my little jeans-pocket notebook with other people's dogs.
(And also, a little later, you'll use the outside-the-session opportunities that present themselves over the course of a day to maybe surprise the dog with a sit command and a mark/reward in a place where he never heard "sit" before, after you have proofed "sit" well. Just a spontaneous mini session that keeps training flowing regularly in short frequent sessions.
But it's great to do exactly what you are doing now .... )
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Re: How to know when a dog knows a command
[Re: Natalie Rynda ]
#384033 - 10/10/2013 12:35 PM |
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.... I'm having a problem keeping him engaged for 2 hours
You can't! IMO, 2 hours of focus is not even a good goal! Can't the two hours be in smaller chunks?
And don't forget the opportunities to use the much less distracting indoors for short little sessions ... even two minutes .... throughout the day.
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