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....Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Hi, Julia,

I couldn't respond to your most recent PM today because your messages received (PMs) quota has been exceeded. You need to delete some. I'll try to send my reply later, OK?

My cousin's GSD died of cancer of several organs after a life on Iams. Not saying that's what's going on with this dog, but I'm really wishing we could go back and refeed these dogs! There has to be some correlation because these cancers seem to be occuring in organs that "filter" like liver, spleen, gall bladder, etc. Maybe they just get so overloaded trying to protect the dog from the toxins and grains in commercial food. Sad, whatever the cause. My family's current dog is now 8, and where the last one was dead at 8, this one acts like she's 8mos, not 8yrs, and she eats only raw. Not a doctor, but it doesn't seem like it's just luck. Hope your mother's dog fares better than mine, Julia. I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

Jenni, there is a good book on the topic of commercial pet food called "Food Pets Die For" by Ann Martin... there is also a sequel to this book called "Protect Your Pet" also by Ann Martin. I read the first book a few years ago and was amazed by its content. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mel,

Can you recap the books? What are the most harmful ingredients in commercial dog food?

As an example: Can you point out the bad ingredients in this label:

Ingredients:
Chicken Broth, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Beef Liver, Ground Rice, Oatmeal, Rice Gluten, Dried Egg Product, Guar Gum, Beet Pulp, Brewers Dried Yeast, Sunflower Oil, Potassium Chloride, Carrageenan, Sodium Ascorbate (Source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement

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.....What are the most harmful ingredients in commercial dog food?

From a previous thread here about dogs and grains:

......the ongoing debate about cereal grains possibly being detrimental to dogs because of the possible strain on the pancreas from trying to keep up with the demand for amylase. END

Amylase is an emzyme that humans produce in abundance and dogs do not. It's used to digest grains (such as rice), and there are studies going on (and/or recently completed) that strongly suggest that the strain on the canine pancreas to produce sufficient amylase to cope with the large amounts of grain in many commercial foods can lead to pancreatitis and even pancreatic cancer, to name just two possible outcomes from digesting grain-heavy commercial foods.

Not all commercial foods ARE grain-heavy, btw, and also, the studies that I have read are focused on foods with grain as a major ingredient.

Some experts on canine nutrition believe that a small amount of grain in the diet emulates a canine diet in the wild, which might include the grain contents of the prey's stomach. I happen to believe that (so far) too, from what I've read. But that grain is not only a very small part of the diet -- it's also partially digested by the prey before the canid ingests it. That leads some experts to recommend that the relative amount be reduced further and that it be well-processed.

This is a far-reaching subject, and there are as many points of view as there are about human nutrition.

I think these sites give a good introduction of the subject, going beyond the cereal grains in some commercial foods to address rancid oils, nutrient-free by-products, hormone additives, antibiotics fed to the slaughter animals, and other issues:
http://www.petsynergy.com/overview.html
http://www.caberfeidh.com/Truth.htm

The B.A.R.F. sites address these issues, too, and are easily found using Google.

Also Google Dogs, Amylase, and Dogs, Grain Foods, or Dogs, Compare foods.

I go to the sites out of vet med colleges and I avoid the sites owned by cmmercial food companies.

I'm not a health professional. These are just my personal opinions and some URLs to some good info.

So much to learn and studying to do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. Thank you Connie for sharing that info. I am studying up on the BARF diet... I have been reading a lot of the past post on the subject and trying to absorb it all. It does sound like the healthiest diet if you can master the art of balancing and supplementing correctly.

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.....I am studying up on the BARF diet... .....It does sound like the healthiest diet if you can master the art of balancing and supplementing correctly.

Or you can follow the suggestions of a web site or book you trust and then branch out as you learn and gain confidence!

One of my all-time faves includes sample meals, how to gauge the amounts for the weight of your dog, and every other question beginners with raw can ask (IMO):

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
http://www.njboxers.com/more.htm

If you'd like a book, there are many good ones, such as Billinghurst's
"The BARF Diet".

And this site right here is loaded with good raw info, so it's terrific that you are reading past posts!

Hi Jenni, recap the books... whew, not sure I can put so much into just a few words but I'll try. I really do recommend the books. The ISBN # for Food Pets Die For is 0-939165-31-7. It was put out by NewSage Press around 1997 or so (the sequel came out a few years later). Its very informative and discusses the quality of ingredients used in commercial pet foods, rendering processes, chemicals, toxins, preservatives, "food not fit for animal consumption", contaminated meat sources... it also discusses some alternatives & provides a few recipies. The whole book is really quite shocking <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> !! It also covers what goes into the livestock feed (which of course is fed to the animals we consume and those used in our pet food).

Here is a quote from the back cover; " Ann Martin carefully and methodically reveals in great detail teh serious problem with ingredients present in commercial pet food. Even more amazing, is that this is an industry that is almost completely unregulated...."

It shed an interesting light on many aspects of the commercial pet food industry and you will no doubt question feeding commercial food to your dog after reading this book.

Raw is definately the way to go, however it also requires a commitment on the part of the owner to ensure balanced meals and so forth. There are many good books and people who are willing to share thier knowledge and experience iwth you. You may also see if there are any holistic veterinarians in your area.

To answer your question on the label you provided, at a glance I'm assuming that this is a canned dog food not kibble... if its kibble I'd say the chicken broth as a primary ingredient is a big problem right off the bat, however from what I see here I'm pretty sure its a canned food. Much of what makes a good food is in the quality of the ingredients (ie: does this company use 'human grade' ingredients or 'animal feed grade'). I would only recommend food companies who use human quality ingredients. I like that the 1st three ingredients are animal protien. Some dogs may find the high liver content a bit rich, this may or may not pose problems for some dogs (I do like that they have specified a source however, avoid products which do not specify source)... some people have issues with beef as a protien, I for one do not (provided its human grade... or if you dog has allregies or other conditions which may be sensitive to this protien). Ground rice & oatmeal are fine. Both are bland and easily digested. Rice gluten however is a fragment (of which I'm not a fan for a variety of reasons). Guar Gum is like a glue and is used as a stabilizer. There is mixed opinions on Beet Pulp (basically its just dried residue from the processing of sugar beets). Brewer's Dried Yeast is a filler, basically just the leftovers from the brewing industry. Carrageenin is a type of seaweed (which is not a bad thing). Most of the rest is vitamin/mineral additives. Ferrous sulfate is elemental iron, Biotin is vitamin K, Riboflavin supplement is Vitamin B2, etc...

I like that here is no chemical preservatives such as ethoxyquin, BHT or BHA... I would need more information to really comment on assets, being that I don't know the quality of the ingredients themselves etc.

Anyway, it its a discussion in itself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. I hope that his helps to answer your question a little. Feel free to PM me anytime, I'm more than happy help if I can. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Some other good books you may look at are "The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care" by CJ Puotinen, "Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog" by Wendy Volhard & Kerry Brown, "Nartual Dog Care" by Celeste Yarnell and "The Nature of Animal Healing" by Dr.Martin Goldstein. Actually, there is another really good one but I can't recall the title off hand... I think its called "Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" and its by Richard Pitcairn (sp?).

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Some other good books you may look at are "The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care" by CJ Puotinen, "Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog" by Wendy Volhard & Kerry Brown, "Nartual Dog Care" by Celeste Yarnell and "The Nature of Animal Healing" by Dr.Martin Goldstein. Actually, there is another really good one but I can't recall the title off hand... I think its called "Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" and its by Richard Pitcairn (sp?).

These are the books I refer to over and over -- what an excellent list!

In fact, the Pitcairn book was the one that started me on researching canine nutrition......... What a great book.