Mike,
Your post made me laugh. I'm now sold on Raw, just for the 'poop factor' alone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Xena seems to like the taste; if only it cost a little less!

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if only it cost a little less!

I've found it much cheaper (including the supplements I use) than any of the kibbles I've used in the past.

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'poop factor'

It's great! No messy clean-ups <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

beef rib bones, brisket bones, pork necks, turkey necks, lamb riblets and flaps, lamb necks... all of these RMBs will be digestible and provide lots of chewing pleasure.

your dog does need bones in his diet. a meat-only diet is not healthy.

i forgot to answer your other question. i get all of these RMBs at a regular old chain supermarket. make friends with the meat department guys and order your RMBs by the case lot.

you want the soft, cartiligenous bones, like ribs and necks, not the weight-bearing bones, like legs. the soft bones will contribute to his diet. the others are just for recreation and are too hard to eat and could cause broken teeth.

Hi Mike,

I give my bhoy a chicken carcase (once I fillet it) and there's plenty of bones for him to get his teeth into on that bad bhoy.

Also, I go to my local abbatior/meat market/slaughter house, where they THROW AWAY more bones than I can count. Luckily I have a friend in there who I can call and he'll stuff bags full of bones for me which I freeze and that gets me through the month.

Great bones for my dog are ribs, especially lambs ribs as these normally come with some meat ( he eats the WHOLE bone) on them if you get the whole ribcage (go to a halal butcher for this as they throw away these parts, in Scotland at least) and can be used as part of his diet.

Be warned though, this is messy business if you cut the bones up yourself (I do).

Someone has already mentioned soup bones, also known as knuckle bones I beleive.

HTH

John

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beef rib bones, brisket bones, pork necks, turkey necks, lamb riblets and flaps, lamb necks... all of these RMBs will be digestible and provide lots of chewing pleasure......

These are my favorite choices, too. Mike's new food does provide the correct calcium/phosphorous ratio of a raw, RMB diet, but I too think that RMBs added are a great idea. Dogs have the natural desire to chew on bones; RMBs are the right calcium/phosphorous ratio and so they don't throw off the carefully formulated ingredients; the chewing is excellent for their teeth; the exercise is good for their jaws and necks; and they like it! It's a good activity! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I wanted to say something about the cost. Over the years, I have learned to completely disregard any increase in cost (if there is one) because it's so offset by decrease in vet bills, over the long run.

If you've had several adult dogs over the years, the comparison is very easy to see. If you are feeding your first pup and have recently switched from the usual commercial to fresh, or dehydrated raw, or frozen, shipped raw, or any of these great choices we have now, then I'd like to assure you from my own (anecdotal) experience that you are choosing to have a healthier dog with less likelihood of chronic illness and the bills that go with it.

Just my own opinion!

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....now he's barely eating 2 cups a day of the honest kitchen stuff. Based on his weight, the minimum reccomended daily is about 2-1/4 cups of the honest kitchen + water, he's eating about 1-3/4 if I put effort into making him eat it.

I posted part of this to the forum of a dog club, and a fellow member reminded me of something I should've remembered on my own: She and another member both used no-salt-added beef broth or chicken broth to rehydrate the food you're using at first, because they were switching from kibble with flavorings added. One still does, and the other doesn't bother any longer.

One member remarked: "Think if you were in the habit of fast food every day; you might think that broiled fish, whole grains, and broccoli were boring at first. You might want a little gravy thrown on top, at first!"

Not a *great* analogy, but a good point.

Of course, if he is maintaining his weight and health at the amount he's eating, I don't think I'd worry about it too much.

I'll still look tonight for that reference I mentioned.

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.....The other thing I'm wondering is that maybe the new diet is more filling for him, maybe he fills up faster on it.....

I found one of the sources that I recalled about dogs eating less on raw than on kibble.

http://www.all-about-raw-dog-food.com/dog-food-comparison-raw-food-diet-barf-diet-raw-meat-diet.html

QUOTE: When you feed your dog raw food he may eat less because the food is more concentrated. He will definitely be more satisfied. END

And QUOTE: Compare things like added coloring, chemicals like hydrolyzed proteins and other flavor enhancers, sugars, flavorings, preservatives and salt. END

That second part might have something to do with your dog eating less than the recommended amount; it might be just that he's not used to food yet without added flavorings.

Thanks Connie, you rock! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Will grab some broth at Target this morning... as well as a 24oz plastic martini shaker, I'm convinced that's a good way to go for measuring and mixing his food without having to use multiple bowls and measuring cups <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone else for the bone reccomendations, I think he'll do best wtih softer bones like the necks, but the problem I've had with him and other raw poultry products is that he doesn't like the smooth chewy texture n just walks away from it. He'll eat it if it's boiled, but I can't give him the cooked bones which kinda defeats the purpose. I'll give soup bones a shot, and I'll see if I can get ahold of some "trial chicken necks" before I buy a whole case and find out he won't eat the stuff.

mike, very interesting what you say about your dog walking away from raw poultry. mine also does this, and prefers it cooked (which i carefully debone). it never occurred to me that it might be because of the texture. what makes you think this? i thought it was maybe because of added brine or something.

pork necks and lamb necks are always eagerly eaten by my dog. but you have to be careful to feed organ meats and veggies, too. too much bone will cause an intestinal impaction. the organ meats and veggies keep things moving. once or twice a week is usually enough.