Sorry, I have absolutely zero respect for the "working trials" in England.

They're bogus.

My point for posting that wasn't to tout the UK dogs or training <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've seen those certs. frequently referred to as Police/Military dog trials. Possibly the people selling the dog you mentioned are referring to a similar type trial system, that in the country of it's origin is also referred to as PD/Mil. for civilians.

Re: ASR, that info. was gleaned from the ASR website. I did mention during that discussion before Xmas, that the description he had of ASR sounded more like PSA. You guys need to update your website <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Are they? I've heard the opposite, but only from people over there. They sounded exciting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I heard of an off breed dog over there who was involved in it and was progressing to the police style portion. The tests aren't good? When the KC stuff was mentioned I was a little surprised since it's referred to as police/military training so often, but then the decoy's input made it sound really tough.

So, the moral of the story is, some countries call trials police military and I suppose it's subjective <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yes, they are.

Robert, what have you seen or heard that gives you that opinion if you don't mind me asking? The idea I got from the people over there was that the WDPD trials were more difficult than sport here, and one of the reasons was because they used heavier decoy pressure, and multiple attacks, much more than used here. (this is what I've read, I don't have an opinion either way) The types of dogs I'm interested in most have a lot of history over there, which is why I lurk or post on boards in the UK, plus I like the people. The place I took the above paragraphs from I wouldn't consider a hard core working board, but I was a member of one with a majority of police & military personnel, and they were very serious. It wasn't a public board. Everything everyone does over there has to be kept hush hush because the laws are stricter and the people's rights a little less.

You guys could very well be right. It's a shame though, because there's a lot of dog and training history in England. I hope we don't follow their lead over here with the pressure of being politically correct looming above us with more and more BSL. I see people saying a lot that England doesn't train, etc., but I never see it mentioned that there is more pressure on them over there to be more 'civilized' and we have much more rights here that was should realize and not take for granted.

I sent you a PM.

My opinion is based on personal experience with a police agency in the UK and several civilian trainers/vendors.

I've been asked to leave it at that by a friend who has since learned a lot about working dogs and is trying to put together a really good program for working GSDs and Malinois in the UK.

And you know. . .you don't have to take Will and I's word on it either. . .

I mean for crap's sake, we only have been rated three stars each by the board. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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I wouldn't accept one for *free* from the UK, as the vast majority of dogs from the UK are of the same poor quality that you see in the AKC, with even worse training.

And I see from those comments that the decoy from Sussex hasn't a clue about ASR. But his lack of knowledge is pretty much what you see with the state of dog training in the UK.

After importing myself (LOL) over here after living my life till I was 20-something in the UK, I am inclined to agree. This said, things are getting MUCH better compared to how they used to be.

Maybe the cert is the WH?

I'll take you guys at your word <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Scott, the reason I mentioned your website was because that was what had given the man the impression of what ASR was about. Reading it myself to see what he was talking about, it did sound sportier than when people talk about it on forums. I directed him over here to some of the many threads that go on to compare ASR, PSA, and the other programs.