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Yeah definately a west german showline... seeing the name Wienerau just double confirms it, but you can tell at a glance from the dogs appearance and the V ratings that its all showline.

Working ability depends on who you ask, what you expect out of the dog, and the individual dog. Some dogs are better than others, and most definately better than the american line shepherds. I love showline dogs, if you get a nice one they have an awesome temprement. If you get the wrong one, you're kinda screwed LOL but that's how it goes with all breeds and all lines.

As a whole, I'm gonna tell you what I tell everyone else, I would not choose a showline dog specifically to do protection training with, and I wouldn't buy a showline dog counting on the dog to defend me to the death... but I will always own a showline dog because they have an absolutely awesome temprement and are fun dogs to be around, they most certainly have thier place in the world, even if the die hard working dog folks will rip on you for thinking that. If you end up with a dog who can work, then work the dog, they enjoy it and some can do very well at it. If you end up with one of the ones who can't work well, then don't force the dog to do something they don't enjoy, accept that you have a very cool and good looking pet. If your goal is Schutzhund n you get a good dog from the right lines then Schutzhund won't be a problem.

Awesome, thank you for that post. I don't think any working line dog owners have ripped on me and if they have, I haven't noticed. I respect every bodies oppinion here one, because they pobably have more experience in what they are talking about because I have only been into the GSd for a year and have only owned one for six months. I don't mind if someone has a strong oppinion, I actually find it helpful because they must have a reason to feel that way.

I think she has the ability to work just because of what I've seen from the parents and my pup is so attentive while I'm training her or playing fetch or when shes chasing that rag on a leash thing I made.

Definetley going to invest on Leerburg vids and I'm glad to know there is an appreciation for the german showline (I'm glad to know she is not a American sholine too!)

Also I think this may be a last question for tonight but what does DDR mean, what type of shepherds are these?

DDR is east german working lines.

not sure how this works being i'm new to this, but wanted to say i own DDR dogs...i think their awesome for working and show...

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...i think their awesome for working and show...

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A good portion of the DDR "working" bloodlines were actually showlines. They were breeding the dogs to win in the shows, thus the big heads and great pigment. There was a split between those still breeding for work and those more interested in show. Same thing happened in West Germany, only in a more extreme way, so extreme that today we call them two different bloodlines. In East Germany working ability took a backseat to physical appearance for a lot of breeders.

-Robert VanCamp

No dog can have it all. Selection criteria is often separated by the choice to focus on either show or work. If you breed a showline to a workingline, you end up with progeny that doesn't really excel in either area.

My opinion is that DDR is mostly bred for show and also the Czeck lines are also getting hard to find a balanced working dog. Yes there are some good dogs but there are week dogs as well and some that think they have a good working dog that do not.

West German and American lines have their weak dogs as well. I'ts important not to measure a dog from its origin, but the breeding that's behind it. Breeders aren't always carefully selecting their matches, in fact some are quite liberal in the crosses they make, because they feel their showline female or "whatever" is such a wonderful dog and would make beautiful puppies. It gets more worthless animals produced in the U.S. than other places, because of looser restrictions and poorer overall breeding material that's here to begin with (overall, that is).

There's a greater variety of types to be found in Czech lines, the better ones in my opinion from Pohranicni straze or Policia lines. These lines were greatly influeced by East German stock, who were before, improved from West German working lines. But eventually the hype about "100% DDR" origin will die out as the quality worsens, and people will be more focused on Denmark, Netherlands, or Belgian stock, when all along the actual breeder's program is what should have been carefully examined in the first place. Emphasis on origin is just not a sensible approach, kind of like selecting for color. Nor, would I disregard a dog's potential working ability because of where it comes from.

There's alot of uniformity in type with DDR lines. But, if DDR lines wish to improve, then there's going to have to be less linebreeding, and some new outcrossing to occur. Either with West German workingline, or some indigenous herding lines in the Eastern part (this is being experimented), or even back from good Czech lines. Czech lines, from what I hear, are getting harder to find anything decent without Grim in the pedigree, which reportedly does not make for good linebreeding. Soon Czech dogs may be greatly infused with Grim, not unlike the Mink and Fero blood of West German working lines. I'm starting to notice more emphasis on breedings with lines from Car z Kostolianskej cesty recently though.

Hi all,
Daryl , you metioned that some experimenting is being done with eastern herding lines to improve the DDR dogs.Is there any info you can provide me that can give me some details on this or at least point me in that direction?
Thanks.

Hi,

Eicke Vom Haus Kind, she is from the old DDR herding bloodlines. Her mother was the HGH herding Siegerin and her half-sister also held this title.

You can check out more info of her and the ddr stud mated to her at Steve Lino's page.

Check your PM for URLs.

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Czech lines, from what I hear, are getting harder to find anything decent without Grim in the pedigree, which reportedly does not make for good linebreeding. Soon Czech dogs may be greatly infused with Grim, not unlike the Mink and Fero blood of West German working lines.

What's "Grim"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Grim is a Czech dog found in the pedigree of many of the better working Czech line GSD's.