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I used to want an antisocial dog, a dog who didn't like people n didn't want people petting my dog. I have since changed my mind about the whole concept. I let my dogs socialize with everyone... Wait it out and be happy you have a stable pup.

Hey Mike,

I may be WAY wrong on this, but your mind change on the
socializing of W.D. IMO - far differs from other promient
people's opinions.

Now, I've learned that each dog is different, and training
methologies differ per dog (maintaining a central "Standard"
in which you subscribe to), so "to each his own".

BUT...

My Sable, at almost 6 months, has been raised per "Don't
touch my dog" instruction. Would you recommend, by way of
your personal experience, that I switch over to "You can
touch my dog" with limits of course, no deep fawning-type
attention?

I'm not trying to stir up a arguement, and would have PM'ed
you Mike, but I feel that this can help others too.

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but your mind change on the
socializing of W.D. IMO - far differs from other promient
people's opinions.

I'd have to disagree... some prominent people will tell you not to let people touch your dog, and other prominent people will tell you to socialize the hell outta your pup because a dog that hates people is a pain in the ass. If you mean prominent people on THIS BOARD, then sure, I think most prominent board members are against letting strangers pet your dog, but there's a world beyond this board with people who have their own lifetimes of experience who have different views. I've seen both types of dogs, n personally I'd rather own the social dog who'll hospitalize someone than the antisocial dog who might hospitalize the wrong person. All the major training philosophies obviously work or they wouldn't exist n people would stop following them, so just follow the method you like best that works best for your dog. Obviously if you have an antisocial aggressive dog then you're not gonna let strangers pet the dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So read your dog and see what's best for him/her.

this is interesting to me because i'm in the middle of taking my pup (17 wks) everywhere i can. now, while i've been exposing him to people/kids, i have really only run into 2 problems: one, a (drunk?) lady at the service station where we regularly go who had recently lost her old snappy little dog and wanted to pick the pup up. i told her "no, don't do that", and the other, at the playground involved a 9 yr old girl with a 3-4 yr old bro who (the bro) screamed every time he saw the pup, and the sister kept "leading" her bro around to where we were (the brat). after the 2nd time, we just left the area. little bro was just too freaked to even think about meeting the pup, and no parents were immediately in sight, or i would've had them help me introduce them.

perhaps just as well...

anyway, to pass the BH, it seems to me that socializing the heck out of him is the correct route, but i won't let everyone approach and manhandle my pup even though he's perfectly willing to approach everyone. as he gets a bit bigger, and we're out more, i'm seriously considering getting one of ed's vests for him--it should cut out some of the idiots (i hope).

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.....So read your dog and see what's best for him/her.

That's the big part. And my own idea of socializing like crazy doesn't include wanting strangers to touch my dog, command my dog, etc. So "socializing" doesn't even mean the exact same thing to every person, I think.

As Mike says, it's what's best for our individual dog (and ourselves), I think.

Sorry, Ann.......we were posting together and I duplicated half of what you said. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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prominent people on THIS BOARD

Yes, this is who I was refering to.

I did mis-read your post abit. And yes, if you want the
responsibility of the not very socialized dog, it's a
matter of personal choice. I mean I can totally see a
situation that calls for such a dog. Not that I'm in that
situation, but someone somewhere...

In my case, however, Sable has questionable drive & genes to
begin with - so coming from that spectrum, I'd have to say
I want a total social dog. And with hard work & fun training
Sable just may bite on command and win us a SchH I!!!

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As Mike says, it's what's best for our individual dog (and ourselves), I think.

Just to clarify... I don't mean run up to everyone n say "please pet my dog", but I don't get frustrated if people ask to pet my dog, I let em unless I really don't like the person. Socializing to me can mean anything that teaches the dog to be social with people, whether that means just walking thru a crowd or people coming up and petting the dog. Do whatever is neccesary for your lifestyle and the dogs temprement. If you are the type to take a dog with you everwhere then, IMO, the dog needs to learn that if someone reaches down to pet him without your permission, it's not a threatening action. Some dogs will never tollerate this, n that's just the way they're wired, but if you can prevent a dog from wanting to kill someone un-neccesarily then you're saving your dog stress and yourself liability. If your dogs never go anywhere but the training and trial field and lives in a kennel with no chance of ever running out the front door to bite the delivery guy, then it doesn't make much difference what you do.

At least for non-professional dogs I think it is better to err on tthe side of being overly social. I have 2 dogs, an older rescue who was not socialized, and bites (this could also be due to her natural temperment I know), and a 2 yo dog that I socialized a great deal with strangers and kids. Now that he is more mature he is far more aloof with strangers, but stllo relaxed and friendly enough, and I feel very confident he will not become agressive. It is a lot easier to walk with him then with the older female.

I think it is very posible to socialize a dog, and still instill obedience so he doesn't jump up or nip, so that shouldn't be a real issue.

Guys & Gals, thank you for your opinions and advice. I appreciate it. I think I will have to control her behavior somewhat, but also, I think you are right and that it may all just disappear when she is mature. ACD's are known for being suspicious of people. So we'll see.

Thank you all gain.

I have an ACD, now 7.5 yrs.

He is a dominant dog. With humans, this expresses socially. He is a pushy friendly dog with strangers much of the time, less as he ages. Even though he is pushy and likes to be petted by strangers(when he chooses), like many dominant dogs he often likes his space, and like most cattle dogs, has a strong defensive side.

I find that this friendly social behaviour doesn't cause too many serious problems with a cattle dog in the big scheme of things. Far better this than prickly, defensive cattle dog behaviour in public: a burst of cattle dog aggression directed at a human could be a serious problem.

You want a cattle dog to be comfortable interacting with people, and not have any negative associations with it. In socializing the dog a first priority should be no negative experiences with strangers.

I know what you mean about people coming up to your cattle dog:

If I raised another cattle dog I'd be much more clear with my dog that socializing with other humans is on my terms, in a sit or down, and I'd be very clear to the people that encouraging jumping is NOT acceptable (in a friendly way). This is far easier said than done, but should be possible. I'd probably have food on hand as the best way to make the obedience comfortable and fun for the dog and create the ongoing positive association with strange people.

I think that the "ground work" described on Leerburg is a great idea especially for cattle dogs.

Just remember at the end of the day what you want is a comfortable, confident cattle dog, that never bites anyone, especially a kid. It's not a bad thing to have a cattle dog whose first response to people is happy and social.

rgds andrew may