Food for thought, if I'm reading your post right you taught your pup that you are a scary, threatening person..........

Heather, I just reread your initial post. This is the part that really concerns me:

 Quote:

but as I got closer showing no fear she backed up and cried showing fear running into walls trying to get away

Is that the relationship you want with your pup?

With all due respect Heather, you first posted about protection training this puppy nearly 3 months ago and got answers similiar to what you are getting in this thread. If you do not like those answers, I don't know what else can be said.

Doing what you did to that puppy is beyond foolish, it was irresponsible and unfair to your puppy. I suggest you do some serious reading and speaking with an experienced trainer before you try to do anything else with this puppy.

you wrote:


I don't care if its foolish I wanted to see if the dog would bite.

>It's quite apparent that you don't care. What you are doing
>with a 6 month old puppy is beyond irresponsible. Any fool
>can get a dog to bite. What you are creating is a scared
>fear biter that will wind up biting you or a neighborhood
>kid. Do NOT buy a sleeve or anything else. Go to a local
>Schutzhund club and LISTEN and Learn !!!!!

It is very simalar what the trainer will do at some point with suit work. It should not have been me that is the only difference. I am purchasing the videos so it might help me. Maybe she is not ready for this or too young.

>You are the owner NOT the trainer. You obviously have
>zero experience with protection training. If someone else
>suggested this was a good way to train. RUN AWAY from this
>person as fast as you can Hope and pray you haven't
>screwed up your dog permanently.

I only intended to try this the one time to see if she had any level of protection before I get a trainer. some dogs even shepherds will not even bark if a new person enters the home. She is not afraid of me or people at all it was normal what she did if someone stranger was to come in my home. it would have been a normal thing. I just had her out at the park today she is not a ruined dog this did not make her a scared dog or a fear biter overnight. she was well socialzed from day one and likes people all but people who attempt to come into the home. She does not bark at anyone when we are out at parks or pet stores but with other dogs she does. I want her to have that drive and aggression and I felt that what I did would bring out her strong side which she lacks. I don't think that a watch dog should be very friendly with every stranger at a park or store because she is and lets everyone pet her. she should be leery. I know at this age she is young and I will have to hire a trainer. Maybe it was silly what I did but at least im honest I did not have to come on here and post this. I know that she does not see me as a threat because as soon as I came back in as myself she was jumping on me and friendly as if she was worried why I had disapeard. Like I said I know that there are levels that trainers use and its not suposed to be me doing the training I will purchse some videos and see what happens. I came here for advice not to catch hell and that I am being mean to my dog.

Some dogs won't bark if a 'new' person enters the house if they don't feel a threat in the first place, so I don't really think this is the correct way to 'test' this.

 Quote:

I want her to have that drive and aggression and I felt that what I did would bring out her strong side which she lacks.

No, proper training and maturity will bring this out. At 6 months of age I'd be concerned if the puppy is barking at everyone in sight. At 6 months a puppy is still that--a puppy--think of him as something like a 7 year old child. IF you were planning to do a training like this, which as you can see isn't recommended by most people anyway, you should NOT have waited until she backed off, you should have run off while she was still barking so that she learns her 'forwardness' would make an intruder run. So what you did did not, in any way, make her stronger at all.

Hopefully you haven't ruined her yet. As well as getting some tapes, I would suggest you read through this entire board. It may take you a year or two, but it's very valuable experience. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Heather,
I agree with the other postings. You should read the articles and postings on this web site.

I had an interesting experience with two dogs. One dog, from working lines was quiet. He never barked at me. I was driving by his home and saw him working with his owner. They were out playing ball. The dog was well mannered, intelligent, and wanted to play ball all day and all night. the dog let me touch him and not once did it growl, bark or push me. This dog was confident and calm. I knew however that this dog would do whatever it took to protect his owner. Remember he didn't bark at me. he was focused on his owner and playing with the ball.

This week I went to look at some showline dogs. The alpha female dog also happened to be the dam of some 6 month old pups. I was properly introduced to this dog and she would not stop yapping. I was not threatening to her. Her owners had commanded her to settle down. She never did. I even went back the next day to see how she would react. She acted the same way. She nudged me both days. All the other dogs settled. (Some were in kennels others came out and met me.) Needless to say this dog made me uneasy. She seemed too unstable and didn't mind her owners who seemed shocked at her behavior. Maybe she just didn't like me.

I don't know how much of this web site you have perused. I think you need to look at the secion on dog bites. Ed has some really beautiful pictures of what dog teeth can do.

http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm#kids

You might also want to read the articles on Sabine from Kansas.

http://www.leerburg.com/rot-kill.htm

You may be creating a weak nerved dog. Here is the link to some questions and answers on that subject.

http://www.leerburg.com/qasoftdogs.htm

One more thing, you said you dressed up to confuse your dog. Dogs, if I remember correctly have a very keen sense of smell. That action just seemed a little, well, I am at a loss for words. Maybe silly is the word I am looking for?

I have been reading this post for several years and find the populace here to be extremely knowledgeable. Heed their warnings. You may regret it years from now when your dog bites someone unnecessarily. Good luck with your training.

Heather, i'm glad you posted. Don't take the responses as a personal attack but as a chance to educate yourself. The thing is, 6 months old is really young. Also, to think you need your dog to be sharp around strangers and people at the door etc. is probably not what you want, at 6 months old you're supposed to protect your dog, not the other way around. My working lines dog is super social and not a "mad dog" because he's also very confident, and not afraid of anything or anyone, that's probably more what you should look at in your dog, is his/her temperament solid? That's the beginning of a good dog, and find a trainer you like and trust, that explains things to you, what your seeing etc. There's lots to learn! don't shy away from this forum, it can be valuable,
Good luck,
AL

testing

I have a question about bite training-specifically schutzund work. My pup is a 10mos. old GSD and only about 60lbs.(this worries me as other GSD's of similar age are twice his size)I want to get him involved in schutzund but have a couple questions.At what age can he be evaluated?At what level of obedience should he be to start? and what things should I be looking for as far as his being able to do that kind of work?My 4yr. old has a high prey drive but not much defense.(got him started in PSA but pulled him out cause I didn't like the way the trainer was working him)I don't want to make mistakes with this guy,but am hoping he has the right stuff.Any suggestions?
By the way Mike -Nice looking dog!