I disagree with Elaine, the difference between working lines and showlines is like night and day Carolyn, find a reputable working lines breeder and tell them what you're looking for and that it's your first dog and all that, and trust them to pick the right dog for you and your situation. I own both and working lines is definitely the way to go <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />,
AL

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Wow, some of the things posted on here bowl me over sometimes. Not arguing with their importance or validity, just commenting how many things some dogs owners have to go thru on a daily basis.

It's just spit, Judy. Not hawking up protein sources for my mutt. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It's quite natural for an alpha of virtually any pack to eat first, and the rest to detect that when they are allowed to eat. Doesn't gross my dog out...although I would be impressed if she was able to convey being grossed out.

My kids are 3 and 1.5 and energetic. The food-handling goal in front of the dog never made sense to me...my dog is fed in the crate, door closed, because that is her space (the kids are not allowed in it, though they're free to be kids around it and sometimes on it). I feel that the notion that it's her space allows her to relax (she's high prey) and turn off, which we all appreciate. I see Cane Corso breeders and other exotic dog breeders brag about how their kids can take food out of their dog's mouths...why is that a training goal, exactly, and what happens when that training fails? I believe my dog could care less, but all in all, I am comfortable enough with her view of my kids in the pack structure not to have to test her like that. Never understood that. And it strikes me as a very dumb thing for new working dog owners like myself to set up. That is a hard environment to control if something goes wrong...your kid's face is way closer to the dog than you could ever hope to be standing near the dog to "try this litle experiment to prove how alpha you really are!"

It's not an issue in my family because it's never been presented as a distraction for either my kids or my dog. Pointless to me to dream up scenarios to prove your dog won't bite your kids.

Elaine offers good suggestions you should take to heart: consider a working line GSD you test with a breeder. It's your first GSD, I assume, so (like me) you may want to target a dog that's not alpha of its litter, female, with a lot of enthusiasm and retrive tendencies (indicative of a willingness to work/train with people). Take the ugliest one if that's the one that's most interested in you and working for you. They get very pretty later when you realize your dog's world revolves around you. I'm not knocking the possibilities of American show (or anything else) being great dogs, I'm just saying in your situation a solid working pedigree and temperment testing geared towards your needs with a working GSD pup takes a great deal of risk out of the situation. It's just a more predictable bet with these genetic and environmental reference points...but needless to say, it's still a bet.

Cats are fine but if you're preparing well also prepare the the real possibility that your dog may never be able to be alone with them. Don't let the pup chase your cats (dangerous for the pup now, dangerous for the cat later). My 20+ lb. claws-intact cat does not hesitate to take a chunk out of Annie if they do get close and probably could have maimed her seriously when the dog wasn't 65 pounds.

Read the archives and articles here and spend money on Ed's basic video stuff. I was just watching the eCollar vid again on my flight this morning, pick up something new everytime, and I might suggest your husband can learn a lot from watching Ed interact with dogs (I think this is one of the best things about Ed's videos for male viewers...he is great at interaction with his pets in mature and calm ways, many men are very bad at this). What helped me early on here was striking up relationships with people who I respected and corresponding with them via PM and in person; the most experienced folks here (I am not one of them) generally pass over the basic pup advice. Again, Ed covers it in his various instruction, but to your point, it's nice to have specific examples from different owners and environments.

If you are alpha and the dog person, that's great, also prepare your husband and your kids that your rules are theirs to follow as well on pain of death. What's cute with cat-baiting (chasing feathers, balls, etc.) and puppy-baiting is a different deal with a good GSD pup and may/will develop behaviors you may not want. Here's a cute video of my kids playing with my dog in a way that was stupid, unacceptable, and irresponsible for me to let happen:

http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=103832&cdate=20060420&ctime=114120

Prepare to make mistakes, I guess. Be glad you're learning now, unlike me, who found this site when Annie was nearly six months old and verging on being uncontrollable. A goof, and well meaning, but too uncontrollable for my environment. Made a lot of progress since I started learning here.

Woody, Woody, Woody. You misunderstood perhaps <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. It's not that spit is gross to me or not gross to me. It's that some things that should or need to be done on a daily basis with some dogs surprises me <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> . Nothing more.

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Woody, Woody, Woody. You misunderstood perhaps <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. It's not that spit is gross to me or not gross to me. It's that some things that should or need to be done on a daily basis with some dogs surprises me <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> . Nothing more.

Just teasing. It's free bonding and pack affirmation, in my mind. Sometimes she even gets meals that don't have my spit in them! I'm fair that way.

<img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

German Shepherds are in a class by themselves. I wholeheartedly agree with that. I've had GSD's over the course of my life, and various other mixed breed dogs, and although I loved all my dogs, there was no comparison between the GSD's and the others as far as intelligence, trainability, and the bond that the GSD's formed with me. None of my former GSD's were even pedigreed, although purebred. But it didn't matter, they didn't know they weren't pedigreed and they were absolutely the best dogs I've ever seen, either mine or anyone else's whom I was familiar with. Two of them may have come from working lines - one was a gray sable, another a brown sable, but never knew for sure. I just got a working line pedigreed GSD, whom we named Lear, all black, who is now 10 weeks old. An alligator from the day I picked him up at the airport at 8 1/2 weeks old (well, at least from the first full day we had him, since we didn't get home until 1AM). He's a rough tough guy, plays hard, bites us HARD (teaching him not to and he's much better), gets a little ticked off when told/shown not to bite. A bit different from my other GSD's who were much mellower. He's a challenge to me, as he seems to want to be the dominate one, but I'm not concerned about that as he is getting the picture. I have to tell myself not to laugh at him as he grabs the leash and tries to take me where he wants to go, with his head held high, like he's the boss. He might have been the dominant pup in his litter, I'll have to find out. He sure acts like he's used to it. He's precious, maybe a little hard, maybe plain hard (not sure, I read Ed's definition of a hard pup and his warning not to immediately assume your pup is hard, so as time passes maybe I'll have a better idea). But as far as trainability, intelligence and intuitiveness, he's what I consider to be a TRUE GSD. The 3rd day we had him, he and my 22 year old son were playing on the floor and I was coming into the house with grocery bags in front of me so Lear didn't recognize me. He stopped playing and started barking at me until he heard my voice. I'm very happy with him. I do agree with one of the other posters (based SOLELY on my experience with Lear versus my other GSD's) that a working line GSD may be a little more than you or your children want to handle your first time around with GSD's. Even though my other GSD's weren't protection trained, I felt very safe with them around wherever we were because of their calm, aloof demeanor and focused attention on strangers who approached - no one wants to go through a GSD (THEY don't know how the dog has been trained). GSD's have a reputation built up, mostly associated with police dogs when it comes to a bad guy.

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I would also recommend you not get one from working lines as the dog could easily be too much for a novice to handle correctly.

Whoops, just reread this, I agree with Al and disagree 100% with Elaine's statement about avoiding working lines for a new GSD experience. They are working lines because they are good at work; that work can include being world's greatest pet for new owners. As long as breeder, lines, and early temperament are well-understood and observed, I'd get a working GSD before I got anything (anything) else for a pet...assuming you have the time to meet its considerable exercise and training needs, it's just about the best thing around.

I am biased, however. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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GSD's have a reputation built up, mostly associated with police dogs when it comes to a bad guy.

I would argue--strongly--that their reputation has been damaged a lot more by careless breeding and ownership of crappy, biting, nervy dogs without regard to their original purposes. I don't see the "police dog" stereotype as a negative unless you've ran from one before.

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Having young kids, whether you work outside the house in addition or not, is outrageously time consuming and tiring. Have a dog that has a tendency to have greater exercise needs (working line) is just something she should think about.

I have a kid-carrying backpack for walks, a roomy tow carraige (www.wike.com) for bike rides with kids and pet, and a dog trained to ignore the kids when we are training in the backyard or anywhere else. I have less risk, behaviorally, with a pup from working lines (selected as I described above). My kids get to see a sound dog in a properly structured environment. Loads of benefit all around.

I'm up early (400am this morning) and up late for the 2-3 hours a day I spend with my dog one-on-one...and I have a crate. If that kind of daily time and is a concern for anyone, I'd hesitate to get any kind of herding, retrieving, hound, or terrier breed. And I'd never get any kind of dog if I didn't prepare to have to spend that amount of time with them.