Then with the drag leash on, when I give the "get back" command and he does as usual, I'm using the leash as I would have to enforce the stay command? What about the barking? Please continue to educate me. If you wish, take a look at the photo section and take a look at Gabe's picture to see who all this fuss is about. As usual, many thanks.

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Then with the drag leash on, when I give the "get back" command and he does as usual, I'm using the leash as I would have to enforce the stay command? What about the barking? Please continue to educate me. If you wish, take a look at the photo section and take a look at Gabe's picture to see who all this fuss is about. As usual, many thanks.

Is "get back" a precise command? If it's vague, then the dog will have trouble understanding exactly what to do. For example, if "get back" just means to move an unprescribed distance, then the dog doesn't connect that with "sit" or "no bark" or anything else you might really prefer when visitors come.

If you want him to be able to greet people at the door, I find that it's good to have exact commands trained.

We may all have different expectations. Maybe you want the dog to alert, and then be told it's OK, and to "sit." Mine are trained that sit means sit quietly (and they aren't rewarded or praised until that's what they do).

But whatever you want the behavior to be, it's good to train it clearly, marking and rewarding for each learned component. I go slowly, and repeat a *lot,* maybe taking a few seconds to go over the doorbell thing several times every day with a new dog, always praising. At first, I reward all the time, but once the dog has learned the command, I reward randomly. I like to praise a lot.

Whatever your doorbell command is, there are a few ways to back up that command in an excited doorbell-visitor atmosphere. One is to have that drag line in my hand so there can be no running around, jumping up, etc. Another is to ask company to ignore the dog 100% until the sit (or whatever) command has been obeyed. Another is to keep the whole thing calm. It's exciting already, and adding excited "No no!" or anything else that fuels the frenzy is probably counterproductive.

So whatever the choice is for doorbell behavior, I train it well, maybe with a helper who can be the visitor. I don't reward the dog for other unwanted responses by giving excited attention to it.

When you have the visitor, you can reinforce the command more easily if you are not also grabbing at/chasing the excited dog at the same time. (Ta-da: drag line! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

When the dog does sit quietly, praise and reward! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Do you have this video? If not, I promise that you will love it, use it a lot, and probably advise others to get it too.
http://www.leerburg.com/302.htm

It's way more than Basic Ob. I ask new-owner clients to watch it for "homework."

I hope you wanted this much detail. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> After the recall, I find good house manners to be something that makes pet dog ownership about a zillion times less worrisome and more enjoyable, and well worth the effort to train.

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Here's a drag leash (drag line, drag lead):
http://www.leerburg.com/leashes.htm#drag

It's basically a short lead with no hand-loop (because the dog has it "dragging" and you don't want that loop to trip in) to grab when you need control.

I have also been known to take an old nylon or cotton lead and cut the loop off.

I wouldn't use nylon as it really burns if it gets pulled through your hand (as our Mal x GSD is capable of doing!).. ouch.

Otherwise, more very useful advice, Connie, thanks <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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.......I wouldn't use nylon as it really burns if it gets pulled through your hand..... ouch......

Yes, that's a good point. I actually have no idea what these old fabric-type leads I had hanging around are made of....... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, thank you for all the information it is appreciated and I will be following your good instructions. I’ve taken an old leather leash and have cut off the loop for a drag leash. I will be ordering the DVD. I only wish I’d of found this site a long time ago. Surely these obedience problems would have been nipped in the bud. It isn’t that I haven’t tried. Our training story is probably longer than you’d like to hear about. As for the ‘get back’ I’ll make sure that I’m not making the error. As with most training problems, it has to fall back on the trainer not being consistent with the command. Feel free to keep sending your thoughts. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m very thankful for this forum.

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..... I will be ordering the DVD. .......As with most training problems, it has to fall back on the trainer not being consistent with the command. ......

Absolutely correct! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Keep the commands simple -- no ambiguity and using the same tone every time -- and repeat the little short sessions often, ending on an "up" note each time. You can't fail! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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I'd rather use focus reward and cause him to WANT to be in the proper heel position. Less stress on both of you. If the food or ball drive isn't there, do what you gotta do.

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Editing to say that I'm with Howard about reward and eagerness to comply. Praise and other motivation work really well! I try to include the good thing in the praise, such as "good heel!" in the happy praise voice. "Good sit" or "good whatever" along with a pat and/or a random treat/toy will reinforce the good behavior, I find, and also will link the command word with happy outcomes.

This is great advice. I don't know why I didn't think of it myself! He definitely knows "heel" but I guess I need to reinforce it more with positive rewards. He has an extremely high food drive. When he knows I'm giving out treats for good behavior, he's an A+ student. I was trying to wean off the treats, but I think maybe I should take a step back. Thanks for the advice!

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.....He has an extremely high food drive. When he knows I'm giving out treats for good behavior, he's an A+ student. I was trying to wean off the treats, but I think maybe I should take a step back. ....

Heck, yeah! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I am so in favor of making it easy with rewards..... nothing like a food-driven dog to make obedience training easy!

I do indeed wean off the treats; I just graduate to random rewards.

I completely agree with Connie that your Get Back command is probably not understood by the dog in this context. I train this in one of two ways, it depends on the dog, the dogs age and the level of training the dog has. The first is the GO TO YOUR BED command. I always recommend the dog has a crate or bed. I train them to GO TO YOUR BED or GO HOME from a distance, so we can be in the kitchen and I can command GO TO YOUR BED or GO HOME and the dog will comply even if the crate or bed is in another room. Then I add distractions, and the doorbell is just one. When I give the GO TO YOUR BED command, the dog is not allowed off their bed or out of their crate unil given the release command. I use this for dogs who have a bit more training. When training puppies this command, I always close the crate door until the pup can stay in teh crate under strong distraction. I do this because I do not want the pup to break a command unless I can be there to enforce it.

The second way I teach calmness when guests arrive at the door is by simply using the sit command. I add the doorbell and guests as distractions and enforce the sit with a motivational correction if need be. Of course if the dog sits through the distraction, they get praise instead! If you are consistent with this (or the above which is basically the same concept except the command is more complicated because more steps are involved for the dog), then everytime the doorbell rings, your dog will look to you for the command. However, I recommend that you invite one of your dog loving friends over so you can repeat the exercise until the dog gets it. IOW, don't try to start training your dog to do this when some real company comes over because you want to have repetition in there so the dog can learn under this distraction. Oh, and if, even after you have done some training and the dog gets it, but still challenges you when real company comes over, then you have to increase the level of motivation for compliance, IOW, a stronger correction. Under distraction, you want to make sure you jump to the top of the broomstick so to say you aren't playing the broomstick game where you keep having to one up him. Just correct very firmly to ensure compliance under distraction, especially if he is already in the habit of not listening to you in this context.
Good luck!
Michelle

I only wish there were friends and neighbors who are willing just to come and ring the doorbell. That’s been part of the problem. We do have two neighbors who will occasionally come and help, but it is so infrequent. I’ll have to try to reenlist their help before the weather gets ugly. Also, what does IOW stand for? The command here is Place. He does know what that word means and where place is and will try this if my neighbor will come and help me. I don’t want him cowering at me like he’s done with the last class instructor. He runs his class with a boot of iron. Too strong for my dog. You’re right too; he’s only partially listening to me. He will obey my command to Place, or get back and stay—he just won’t shut up. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Keep the suggestions coming, I promise to keep working on my end.