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.... I guess we were posting at the same time!!!!

Yep. Great (sneaky) minds running together....... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can dogs become amune to the correction (choke chain)?

I ask because when I do correct him with it, it seems to have very little effect. I am quite a big bloke and a level 9 correction has no effect but with the prong a level 4 is all I need. If you understand me. The dogs seems to have far more respect when using the prong. He knows when it goes on he has to be good lol. I am buying the velcro cover for it. Hey a bandana here in the UK would be like putting big pink ribbons in his hair and a kiss me quick hat on him. We dont use them here lol. I will try the cover and a "mind your own business" attitude lol.

Thanks all, just trying to move in the right direction. I dodt realise I had so many faults till I went to the obedience classes. I suppose it all depends p what I want personally from him. He walks to heel, sits, lies down, lies flat on side, speaks on command. I guess Its all I need. I have knocked the protection work on the head after advice from here.

Thanks guys off to bed now 03.23 here and bloody freezing.

OK, 71/2 months is not unreasonable to expect the dog to listen under distractions. I don't know why some think that under a year is taboo to correct! Unless your dog is super soft it is not unreasonable to expect compliance at that age.

I think at 7 or 8 months of age a correction with a prong depends on the drive the dog has. If a young dog is hard headed a prong is the right tool,if you correct your dog one good time and he "apologizes " the correction was understood. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mike

The 'disguise' doesn't 'have' to be brightly-coloured and I have seen 'bandanas' used in UK.
Get a big black hanky with a skull and-crossbones on it!
Or make a cloth 'sleeve' to fit over the collar.

It's not easy to find a trainer who does approve of/allow prongs, I've found, so I've resorted to a DIY approach, using Ed's dvds for guidance.
My wife was accused, by our trainer(with, allegedly 36yrs experience) of 'torturing' and 'tormenting' our dog, for using one, which was the only way she could manage our lively young MalxGSD <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

The stupid thing is that it's quite clear that 'yanking & cranking' with a 'choke chain' is FAR more harmful (and, as you've found, less effective).

Good luck.

Mike

The 'disguise' doesn't 'have' to be brightly-coloured and I have seen 'bandanas' used in UK.
Get a big black hanky with a skull and-crossbones on it!
Or make a cloth 'sleeve' to fit over the collar.

It's not easy to find a trainer who does approve of/allow prongs, I've found, so I've resorted to a DIY approach, using Ed's dvds for guidance.
My wife was accused, by our trainer(with, allegedly 36yrs experience) of 'torturing' and 'tormenting' our dog, for using one, which was the only way she could manage our lively young MalxGSD <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

The stupid thing is that it's quite clear that 'yanking & cranking' with a 'choke chain' is FAR more harmful (and, as you've found, less effective).

Good luck. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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My wife was accused, by our trainer(with, allegedly 36yrs experience) of 'torturing' and 'tormenting' our dog, for using one, which was the only way she could manage our lively young MalxGSD

The stupid thing is that it's quite clear that 'yanking & cranking' with a 'choke chain' is FAR more harmful (and, as you've found, less effective).

We get the same thing here in Vermont. It's really frustrating. I get nasty looks if I even SAY the word "correction" in relation to dog training. Here the only "acceptible" tool is a halti <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> And they, of course, don't work. You're right Roger, choke chains suck. If I take my pup to class I can't use my prong collar or people get "upset and have to leave". I have a young, energetic and cheeky Doberman. I ended up just making the decision to stop caring what people think, and just do what I need to do for my dog.

Mike, One of the things that I like to teach all of my dogs is to look at my eyes when I say their name. This works great for a distraction.

To start have a pocket full of the best yummy treats you can find. Something he just can't resist. Say his name and the instant he looks at your face say good boy or yes or whatever you prefer and give him a treat. After he gets really good at that then you can add other commands to this. This is what I use as a distraction when things are getting a little "hairy" and I want my dog to stay focused on me. Keeps the dog paying attention to you. It is, IMHO one of the most important first steps in training. This doesn't happen over-night and you have to be consistent with this but it is worth the effort.

"Come" and "look at me" are the first two commands my dogs learn. They also learn that "come with me" means I'm headed in the opposite direction and they better do the same without question.

Ooh, your right. That works GREAT. Make yourself the most interesting thing that's going on <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Thing is the other day he was wearing his correction chain and really played up for me in town. Today I took him to a street carnival, with fireworks, floats bands dancers etc and he had his prong on and he never batted an eyelid. NOTHING fazed him. He is like a new dog with his prong on. Very obedient, walks great and is very calm. The difference is like chalk and cheese.

Sounds a lot like how my Dobe used to be. Just putting the prong collar on him seemed to put him in a more focused state of mind, even if the lead were completely slack!

I also have been diligently following the Leerburg DVDs (Basic OB, E-Collar Training, Drive & Focus, and Dominant Dog) and my dog has transformed since we rescued him two months ago. He was a raw 8-month old puppy then, and now he is a surprisingly well-behaved 10-month old puppy now! THANK YOU, Leerburg.

I rarely ever use the prong collar anymore, but the e-collar stays on for any off-lead indiscretions, which are becoming rarer and rarer. Ed talks about the power of the handler's voice in the DVDs, and I couldn't agree more. All I have to do is say a calm "no" and my dog will mind me instantly. I'm amazed. I think I attribute that to the e-collar training after building solid on-leash fundamentals.

Keep the faith. If you're fair and consistent with your training, your boy will eventually get to the point where a calm voice correction will be just a powerful as the prong.