Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Luke Charlton ]
#119210 - 11/29/2006 09:26 PM |
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Lauren Fitzgerald ]
#119214 - 11/29/2006 11:47 PM |
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Yes.
A bay dog is a dog bred to find prey and "bay" it, in other words bark at it loudly so the following hunters can find them. Normally bay dogs are used in teams of 3 or more. The bay dogs find the prey, and circle it to hold its attention and keep it in one place. They are normally used on prey like wild boar. Bay dogs are normally cur breeds like the Louisiana Catahoula or the Black Mouth Cur.
A catch dog(s) is deployed by the hunter after the prey is located. Normally it is something like a pit bull. This dog actually goes in and bites the prey, gripping it and holding it still so the hunter can kill it. (I hear they actually kill hogs with knives, so a good catch dog is a must!)
So for my example of hog hunting, yes, different breeds are used in the same hunt.
They do not seem to need much in the way of special training.
My guess is the dogs that would need the most training would be the retrievers and bird dogs. Just my uneducated guess
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Ed Frawley ]
#119394 - 12/02/2006 09:01 AM |
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Ed, I would agree 100% with you. The amount of remote trainers purchased by hunters alone makes for some question. And I can't tell you how many times over the years I have heard "I put the collar on him, and that Brittany of mine bunny hopped out to around 100 yards or so(the effective range), and then took off like a nut". Sounds more like the Brittany IS smarter than the handler. And you hear the idiotic laughing comments about how "that little button gets their attention".
I am not an expert, and not really a decent novice for that matter. I have spent every year that I was not deployed since I was 17 either hunting, or messing with hunting dogs in some way or another, be it bird dogs, coon hounds, beagles, etc. I personally don't feel that you can mess up a good hound with obedience, but I have only seen a few that would voluntarily break track once they have it, if they lose it they might listen, but on track I just have not seen it. As for bird dogs, my reservations are just about what you teach / when you teach it. And that reservation comes from my true lack of knowledge, and from the experience of having to go back and correct problems in my first GSP. I got gung ho, started with an obedience book, a month later my manual came in the mail, and I found out that I was going to have a confused GSP on my hands. I ended up retraining the "whoa" a few times, & had to force train the retrieve after being foolish enough to use a young dog on doves(feathers come out easily and the pup ends up with a mouth full of apparently bad tasting feathers), but eventually we did get through it, the dog being a bit better at reading me than I was him.
NAVDHA puts out a very good manual on training a versatile hunting dog, and you get a free copy by joining. I think that the VDD/GNA also offers an outstanding manual, or at least it did. And amazingly there is NOT a section in either one on the use of shock collars, at least not in the editions I have had for upwards of 20 years now.
If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking.
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119396 - 12/02/2006 10:12 AM |
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119397 - 12/02/2006 10:15 AM |
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If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking.
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119398 - 12/02/2006 10:18 AM |
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If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking.
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119399 - 12/02/2006 10:20 AM |
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Per the 3 above photos.
IF you hunt with dogs, and you hunt alot of different things, then there are Drahthaars, and then there is everything else.
If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking.
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119403 - 12/02/2006 10:51 AM |
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To insure the continued quest for improvement of performance, regulations were established which require that all VDD Drahthaar used for breeding must first meet certain field performance standards. This evaluation of performance is conducted at special field trails designed to demonstrate inherited qualities.
The testing program of Group North America adheres to all VDD and JGHV Test Regulations. To evaluate hunting ability, VDD/GNA sponsors Spring Natural Ability Tests, Fall Breed Tests, Fall Utility Tests, and Coat and Conformation evaluations. For the purpose of breeding hunting dogs that are valued highly for versatility, the breed tests evaluate inherited ability, rather than establishing the superiority of one dog over another. To enter a dog in these tests, an owner must be a member of the Jagdgebrauchshundverband or an associated group, such as the VDD/GNA.
Testing of the dogs' inherited natural ability begins with the Natural Ability Test (VJP) when the dog is approximately one year old and essentially untrained. This "Puppy" Test is designed to evaluate the young Drahthaar's inherited abilities in five different categories (pointing, nose, tracking, search, and cooperation).
Advanced Natural Ability Tests (HZP) are conducted each fall for the Drahthaar whelped prior to October 1st of the previous year. This Fall Breed Test, for the 65-75% trained dog, again allows evaluation of the five qualities listed above, and adds several demanding retrieving tasks. Desire, obedience, and trainability are also important aspects of the is evaluation.
The ultimate field test for the 100% trained Drahthaar is the Utility Test (VGP). This test allows evaluation in 26 categories, and 18 different hunting situations. This test is a comprehensive evaluation of the dog's performance. Obedience is emphasized in the Utility Test, however, natural ability also is evaluated. Handlers of the Deutsch Drahthaar are encouraged to strive toward the successful completion of the Utility Test.
Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950’s, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed.
All certified judges at GNA sanctioned events have successfully trained and handled a dog through all tests, and have served as an apprentice judge in a minimum of two VJP's, two HZP's, and two VGP's.
Many think the abilities of the VDD registered Drahthaar are phenomenal, but this should be expected when you consider the discipline, care and dedication which has gone into its development.
If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking.
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119404 - 12/02/2006 10:53 AM |
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After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed.
Sounds alot like what has happened to American bred GSDs, huh?
If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking.
Gen. G.S. Patton |
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Re: Obedience in hunting dogs
[Re: Kevin Mobley ]
#119406 - 12/02/2006 11:11 AM |
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My old boss & her husband have a Drahthaar. They just moved to Arkansas, mainly because her husband became even more of an avid hunter after getting this dog. What I especially like about the breed club is that you can't even get a pup/dog if you can't prove you're an active hunter.
"A dog is a mirror of a man's soul" |
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