I wasn't aware the litter owner could change the registration. Can litter owner's also change from full to limited?

Exactly. Many sell higher for full registration. The good breeders I've found in many different breeds sell for show quality/breeding quality.

I've been reasearching different breeds and have a notebook on different breeds. I've limited choice since I live in Alaska. I like to be able and keep my dogs outside. Breeds like goldies frequently get snow stuck in their paws. I've a malamute right now. I'm trying to actually keep ker and have 2 dogs. I think, but not positive the dog I want to work with for show is a saint.

the litter owner can make any or all of the puppies limited registered. And the litter owner is the only one who can sign the paperwork for limited papers to be changed to full. I don't believe that anyone can change the papers from full to limited after the registration is completed, so it needs to be done at the time when the application is filled out/signed by the litter owner.

molly

so, just to get this straight. After the papers have been sent in with limited, the litter owner can ask the AKC for paperwork to allow to be registered as full?

Molly , I was talking about making up your own limitation if the one you are talking about is not enough.I know a breeder of Great danes that when he sells his pups he does not give out the papers, only a copy.For his show quality pups he will give the papers with exactely the AKC limitation you are talking about.But for the pet quality ones , no papers until proof of spay and neutering.He sells his pups with that agreement with no problems.So many times I have seen all of his pet quality sell first and the price difference is not enormous.It worked for him.
That's what I meant
http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/cadogancna/

The problem constantly think about is the gross action of people who will breed and sale puppies without papers. The general populous doesn't know any better, they just want a pup, then the dog ends up getting a disease or getting sick. The type of people who screw the people buying pups are the people who first screw the breeders to get a pup. The neighbors I was talking about earlier bought a "pet" quality pup and bred both of them, one which clearly had a mental problem. The female acted very awkward and snappy to everybody and IMO not only could-be genetically defunct but a danger to people.

These are the type of scumbag which make my gut turn inside out.

So even if I followed the method of the Great Dane breeder, I could still possibly get screwed.

I'll have to speak with the local breeders here since they probably've had to deal with this type of situation.

I might end up having a vasectomy or tubal ligation for all pet quality pups when the time comes around. I don't think the people who like their pet intact would mind since there are little to no side effects.

 Quote:

so, just to get this straight. After the papers have been sent in with limited, the litter owner can ask the AKC for paperwork to allow to be registered as full?

there is a spot on each puppies' registration application, that the litter owner can fill in, or not - making the individual puppy limited, or not. The puppies are still registered in the name of the owner/buyer who registers it. But the owner cannot change the limited to full - only the litter owner can do that. AKC has a downloadable form, the litter owner can print out, sign, and send to the puppy owner at any time, to allow the registration to be changed to full. The registration papers are sent in with the form signed by the litter owner, with a small fee to AKC (which I as litter owner pay when I change a puppy from limited to full) and AKC then sends back a new registration that is full.

molly

 Quote:

there is a spot on each puppies' registration application, that the litter owner can fill in, or not - making the individual puppy limited, or not. The puppies are still registered in the name of the owner/buyer who registers it. But the owner cannot change the limited to full - only the litter owner can do that. AKC has a downloadable form, the litter owner can print out, sign, and send to the puppy owner at any time, to allow the registration to be changed to full. The registration papers are sent in with the form signed by the litter owner, with a small fee to AKC (which I as litter owner pay when I change a puppy from limited to full) and AKC then sends back a new registration that is full.

molly

Oh, well that is really nice to know, thanks. I'm still learning and haven't covered everything yet.

 Quote: David Ross

I might end up having a vasectomy or tubal ligation for all pet quality pups when the time comes around. I don't think the people who like their pet intact would mind since there are little to no side effects.

The problem is, at 8 weeks, unless there are some OBVIOUS problems (physical or temperamental) then you cannot really decide who is or isn't pet quality. And if you're doing your breeding right, there won't be that many pups with obvious problems, know what I mean?

Remember that if you're breeding WORKING DOGS you really don't know what you've got until the dog has been trained and tested in various disciplines. And that hasn't happened by 8 weeks. A dog who doesn't show promise as a baby can end up being a GREAT sporting dog, or a dog that doesn't really like the bitework portion of SchH could still be a phenominal tracker and do well in SAR.

So you see it isn't all black and white. You will see when the time comes, you just CANNOT look at a litter of babies and say THAT one is a pet quality, while THIS one is going to the SchH Nationals.

Think about it too... You're thinking of breeding working calibre GSD's (I'm assuming?) The average stupid pet owner doesn't go out of their way to find these dogs. They buy and sell AKC GSD's. This doesn't mean you don't have to watch yourself, but you certainly don't as much as say a golden retriever breeder.

At the same time, you can assume that whoever buys one of your pups probably has at least a minimal interest in working it. This is one of those things that, if it's a new owner, grows and blossoms sometimes once they get the pup. So they might have originally wanted only a pet. But then they get bitten by the bug.

It definitely sounds like you want what's best for the dogs, but you'll find it isn't a black and white issue. If you're breeding working GSD's then MOST of them shouldn't be going into pet homes (keep that in mind) and if they're going into working homes, you can't go rendering them unbreedable regardless of what you think of them at 8 weeks old (again, barring any obvious defects... Which you shouldn't be having too many of anyway).

To throw another wrench into the loop, while the AKC won't register pups from parents with limited registration, the UKC has no problem doing it so all a person needs to do is register said limited registration parents with UKC and and the pups are registerable. Yeah, the UKC might not be the AKC but it still torques me nevertheless.