Quote: Beth Fuqua

Hi Katherine. I think you are wise to think about backup options. For us, it's Natural Kitchen Embark or Force.....

I'm pretty sure Beth meant to type The Honest Kitchen, the brand that makes Embark and Force. http://leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm



You knew that, I'm sure, since you mentioned the brand; I was just pointing it out to clarify for other readers.

BTW, Buckaroo Beef had breakfast cereal by-products in 4th place on the ingredient list, which doesn't necessarily make it terrible, but I try to avoid grains in any food fed regularly to dogs. Dogs don't naturally produce the grain-processing enzymes we do (such as amylase), and I believe, after a lot of research, probably sustain organ stress from trying to produce unnatural amounts of those enzymes in their bodies' attempts to use the protein in grains. IMO, dogs are designed to get their protein from meat.

So, long story short, I'd rather not give grains to dogs on any regular basis.

 Quote: connie sutherland

BTW, the thing about kibble mixed with raw is this: kibble takes 3 times (or more) as long as raw to digest, forcing the raw food into unnaturally long contact with the dog's system. This allows pathogens in raw meat time to colonize, and it loses most of the dog's natural resistance to such pathogens, which comes from their short, enzyme-based digestive system. Zipping from one end to the other is their natural process; kibble doesn't work that way.

I'm still wondering about this kibble-goes-through-faster-than-raw business. First, what is the evidence for this? My dog eats raw, in the evening except for a small amount in the morning while tracking. Yet he poops in roughly equal amounts 2-3 times a day, primarily right after his evening meal, but also in the morning and sometimes in the middle of the day if I let him out. If his raw food was digested so quickly, why would it, um, hang around so long? Or is it that it simply gets to the colon much quicker than kibble? Secondly, given that it doesn't all come out after a few hours (I recall reading 4), what is the effect of it sitting around in the colon for 24 hours? Does that let pathogens colonize?

I'd just like to know what the evidence is for this assertion. It may very well be true, but it seems very close to being an urban legend - something that's gained legitimacy by being repeated often, yet no one can really point to the source. I have good reasons for not feeding kibble, but this one doesn't quite pass the "sniff test".

BTW, I will gladly eat my words (fully cooked) if I'm wrong and there is proof. I'm not trying to insist the theory is wrong - I just want to know the basis for it.

Thanks!

 Quote: AnitaGard

.... I'm still wondering about this kibble-goes-through-faster-than-raw business.

??

Do you mean the inverse?

Er, yes.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Beth Fuqua

Hi Katherine. I think you are wise to think about backup options. For us, it's Natural Kitchen Embark or Force.....

I'm pretty sure Beth meant to type The Honest Kitchen, the brand that makes Embark and Force. http://leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm



You knew that, I'm sure, since you mentioned the brand; I was just pointing it out to clarify for other readers.

BTW, Buckaroo Beef had breakfast cereal by-products in 4th place on the ingredient list, which doesn't necessarily make it terrible, but I try to avoid grains in any food fed regularly to dogs. Dogs don't naturally produce the grain-processing enzymes we do (such as amylase), and I believe, after a lot of research, probably sustain organ stress from trying to produce unnatural amounts of those enzymes in their bodies' attempts to use the protein in grains. IMO, dogs are designed to get their protein from meat.

So, long story short, I'd rather not give grains to dogs on any regular basis.

Oh yes!! I meant Honest Kitchen. Hereby Connie, you are still my Raw Feeding Godess!! (happy new year)

Beth

 Quote: AnitaGard

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

BTW, the thing about kibble mixed with raw is this: kibble takes 3 times (or more) as long as raw to digest, forcing the raw food into unnaturally long contact with the dog's system. This allows pathogens in raw meat time to colonize, and it loses most of the dog's natural resistance to such pathogens, which comes from their short, enzyme-based digestive system. Zipping from one end to the other is their natural process; kibble doesn't work that way.

.... I'm not trying to insist the theory is wrong - I just want to know the basis for it.

Thanks!

You mentioned your dog's digestions rate(s), and I have to answer that dogs are as individual as humans in their metabolisms and digestions. In addition, the gastric emptying rate is inversely related to body weight, generally (which is oversimplified, but broadly true, I believe).

The question about whether grains take a much longer time than meat for a dog to digest is answered in Merck (and many other vet texts), but I'm not positive that that's what you're asking.

So I'll go with this:

I have read this assertion a zillion times (as we all have), but where I first read it was in a book by Wendy Volhard. I don't remember which book it was, but I found this online:

QUOTE:
According to a Swedish study, raw foods pass through a dog’s stomach and into the intestinal tract in 4 1/2 hours. So after that time span, the dogs were already receiving the energy from that food. Raw foods are the most easily digested by the dog.

Semi moist food, the kind that is found in boxes on the shelves in the supermarket and shaped like hamburgers, or found in rolls like sausages, took almost 9 hours to pass through the stomach.

Dry food took up to 16 hours. So if you choose to feed your dog any kind of dry processed dog food, it will be in his stomach from morning, noon ‘til night. END from http://www.volhard.com/holistic/artbywv.htm

Other books asserting that kibble fed with raw can slow the process of the raw food (in a quick look at my shelves and their indexes) are:
Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats; by Richard Pitcairn, D.V.M., and Susan Hubble Pitcairn, M.S., The Nature of Animal Healing; by Martin Goldstein, DVM, and The Encyclopediea of Natural Pet Care; by CJ Puotinen.

I believe that Tom Lonsdale's Raw Meaty Bones explains that, too, but I don't have it.

I think maybe you are looking for online authoritative studies backing this up, and I'll look through my saved course stuff. I think that Merck has a definitive chart of digestion rates, but I have to look. My memory is less than great (a lot less! :grin.

Ooh Ooh Ooh, (hand raised up high and bouncing in seat) I have a question.
If I forget to take out food (heaven forbid) and I am out of Honest Kitchen (has not happened yet) and all I have is kibble, can I feed that in the morning and then go back to raw that night after food is prepared?
I do not like to fast the Bloodhound too often due to bloat.
Thanks

We started feeding Solid Gold Check it out . Its not raw but beleive it is high quality.I worry about raw because of all the antibiotics fed to chickens. Its alot.

 Quote: Curt Mills

...I worry about raw because of all the antibiotics fed to chickens. Its alot.

Yes, I do too. Hormones, too, as well as chicken by-products used in chicken feed.

So I feed organic chickens, no-hormone, no-antibiotic, grain-fed and pasture-raised. There are several.

I know what you mean; although I try very hard to feed a variety, I admit that chicken is the mainstay of my dogs' diets.

Of course, this means that I can't afford to eat!