This is what protective breeds do.....my Mali doesn't even like angry sounding voices. Will get a rumble in her throat. You learn in a hurry that rough-housing isn't always appropriate play with these guys around! It is a behavior that I would expect to see from several of my dogs. The level of tolerance is different with each one though. Some react this way some do not. Now you know your guy will! IMO correcting this behavior is a personal preference and depends on what job expectations you have of your dog.

Heck, my schipperke will even fire up if he thinks things are getting too rough. IMO this would be a perfectly natural response from a GSD.

I had an intact male Golden Retriever (the suckiest dog around) that I was babysitting, growl at a human male visitor who was teasing and roughhousing me. And he meant business.

It was out of character for this dog, but I think he thought I was being attacked, and was protecting me.

I agree that your dog, a more "protective" breed than a Golden, was just protecting you from what he perceived as an attack. In other words I agree with all the responses you got, that it is a pack behaviour.

What probably happened is, he saw you as being attacked, he jumped in and bit your brother, the fight most likely stopped at this point, and the dog ceased being aggressive because you were no longer "in danger". You would correct this behaviour, IMO, if you did not want your dog to ever defend you on his own. (without a command).

Just my 0.02, i have no PPD experience.

I saw in National geography wolf program( I might not recall correctly) and would think that if the pack leader is attacked the rest would follow.Am I wrong? I will have to look deeper in to that.I'll be back...

There is a difference between members of your household & all others! Dogs can & must be taught household members are off limits from attack. This will not make your dog less protective of you from bad guys!

My husband and a helper were working on a storm door, dog and I were sitting 20-25ft away(giving instructions, of course).Husband quickly lays down on his stomach to look at something, helper bends down to look. Dog goes from 0 to 150 in 1.2 seconds! She stopped when I said NO!!!! All of this after a good 15-20 minutes of her laying there quietly watching. This guy had been working around here for about 2 weeks, so she knew him. Came back and layed down beside me as though nothing had happened. Just when I thought I could trust her with a non-pack member. I did put her leash back on her.

My interpretation was, pack member down, major threat!!!! There is just something about that getting down on the ground thing with predator type animals.

thanks for all the input. my brother had my dog out while I was at work and he said everything was fine. thankfully he isn't scared of the dog. he was well behaved according to him. we are gonna go ahead and get a temperment test at the local schutzhund club and see what they say.

The discussion on how pack leaders "request" backup in wolves reminded me of something I saw in a wolf program a while ago.

As far as I could tell, the alphas don't seem to give any visible "signals" to communicate when to attack an intruder. On the other hand, when a wolf pack is about to go hunting, they tend to have some fascinating ritualistic behaviours (initiated by the alphas of course), where they get all worked up and energized... howling and playing and whatnot.

Anyway, in the case of an attack on an intruder (not on prey), there was a striking example shown on the program. A coyote snuk in and was scavenging off a wolf pack's kill. When the wolves returned to finish their kill, the coyote ran off and watched them from a safe distance.
Now usually wolves won't bother hunting down a scavenging coyote, but in that particular pack, the alpha female was a known "coyote killer".

Instead of ignoring the coyote and feeding off the kill, she started stalking it. She never so much as made a sound or even looked towards the other wolves in the pack (who didn't seem to care the slightest bit about the intruding coyote). Her stalk was really serious and she carefully concealed her presence by circling around to the back of the coyote using trees and bushes as her cover.

The amazing thing was that the other wolves in the pack noticed the alpha female's behaviour and they suddenly paid attention to what was going on (the alpha male didn't seem to care, he was munching away on the carcass). The female was still going about her stalking, very quietly, and without any kind of "signal", the other pack members immediately "deployed" and placed themselves in a way that would cut off the coyote's escape.

When the coyote noticed that it was being hunted, it tried to escape, but the wolves cut off its escape and forced it towards the alpha female. She attacked it quite viciously and killed it.

She then quickly moved on and the other wolves followed her.

It seems as though the lower ranking pack members follow their leader's lead.

I suppose that if a human pack leader started to fight with another human, the dog would be compelled to follow his lead and jump in to assist. Obviously domestic dogs would be influenced by many other factors (temperament, training etc.), but jumping into a fight that its human pack leader "starts" seems like appropriate pack behaviour.

(On the other hand, if the human alpha calmly greets another human, the dog has no business exhibiting aggression. It should follow its leader's lead and react accordingly.)

Just thought I'd share what I saw on that program... don't know how much application it has in this particular scenario, but I found it very fascinating!

I saw that program, it was great.I felt bad for the coyote, it was such a vicious killing
But I was looking through some books and i couldn't find in detail "attacks on the pack leader"but I totally agree with you.


Susan, IMO I think your are wrong about that, unless his brother is living in the same house with "pack leader" he is a outsider.If he lives in the house he (the brother) might be looked at as a lower rank than the dog(in the dogs eyes) there fore would protect his hanler no matter what. I think figthing, wrestling with anyone your dog loose in the house is a bad idea,
But what do I know.........

There's nothing wrong with a dog who protects its leader, IMO. I love what Yuko wrote about the wolves.

This may be a silly theoretical example, but I'll throw it out there anyway and risk it: If someone grabbed your neck from behind, cutting off your air and speech, would you want your dog to sit there waiting for a command that you couldn't give, or would you want your dog to come to your rescue based on the struggle the dog was witnessing. A GSD is known to be a protective breed and what Marc's dog did is normal behavior, his leader was in trouble. Even the breeds not labeled as protective would have a hard time with a heated argument between family members. They may or may not do what the GSD did, but they would display anxiety and stress, nonetheless.

I've always looked at my GSD dogs' and my relationships as team relationships. I protect them, they protect me. They expect it, I expect it. They've never let me down.

Thanks for the info on the wolf pack behavior, I find this subject SO interesting. I always wonder what a dog should do in situations where they may feel a threat to themselves or a family member where all humans in the family have a higher pack order. Having and APBT and Am Staff I have been told by other PB fanciers that a well bred PB should have NO guardian tendencies and be completely people passive regardless of the situation...threat or not. Well that ceratinly is the case for my show bred Am Staff, but not so for my very well bred APBT. I find this odd. The only thing I can attribute his protective tendencies towards is as a pup and adolecent dog he was always at the stores my Husband owned, until my husband retired. I would not say he was trained as a guard dog - he wasn't but he was always behind the counter with my Husband and actually deterred a difficult individual at one of the stores. I don't know if a dog remembers?????? When they both retired and he became a house dog I noticed he had several guardian tendencies, he would sit at the window if we were all in the living room and continually scan. He would go upstairs to my daughters bedroom and after she fell asleep would postion himself in her room on the floor to be watching the door. A K9 trainer friend of mine though it be wise we NOT allow him to do these things so we have broken him of these obviouse guardian behaviors...but I would never feel comfortable with anyone just walking into my house without a proper introduction with him. My female you could stomp her and me and she would sit there and look amazed...like why are you being so mean????? It has happened during an accident with another dog and that dogs owner. I always am amazed at the difference in behavior....and I know what folks say my dogs should act like and it is not what you would expect from a GSD...it is funny though because I don't allow rough housing in my house because of him (daughters rough housing with boy friends), my female Staff thinks it is all big fun....

Great info on this thread...thanks all. I would love to see that show on the wolf pack does anyone know how I might get a hold of a copy?????