Yuko Blum wrote 03/11/2007 10:23 AM Re: Toe nail [Re: Mike Arnold ] #132677 - 03/11/2007 10:23 AM
Yuko Blum Webboard User Reg: 11-20-2006 Posts: 1002 Loc: Offline	Quote: Mike Arnold Super glue is a neat tool but in my hands it would probably end up that my hand would have to be surgically removed from Max's foot. You're a funny man Mike, thanks for putting that image in my mind!! Lol. I wondered about the same thing that Sandy did. Do vets not use a local anesthetic for such a procedure? It does seem overkill to put the dog under to work on a nail. Well, unless the animal is out of control, which I assume is not the case for your Max. Good luck with Max, I hope the fella recovers quickly!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/11/2007 10:51 AM Re: Toe nail [Re: Sandy Moore ] #132681 - 03/11/2007 10:51 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Sandy! Ding ding ding! You woke up part of the large slumbering portion of my brain! I remember in some canine nutrition class a discussion of locals for something or other. I heard that locals went out of favor almost completely around 2000 because the newer generals were so much safer and more exact than older ones. But the point is that yes, local anesthesia for small animals does exist and was widely used not that long ago. I remember hearing "local with a mild sedative if needed for an anxious dog" (which I guessed meant a valium and then a local). Will see what I can find.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/11/2007 11:02 AM Re: Toe nail [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #132684 - 03/11/2007 11:02 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	OK: http://www.vettechjournal.com/avecct/VT_21_06_332.pdf http://www.forp.usp.br/bdj/t0482.html These are not particlarly accessible (to me, anyway), but maybe they (particularly the first one) provide discussion points for the vet. QUOTE: When properly used, local anesthetics have minimal cardiovascular or respiratory side effects; in contrast, general anesthetics may cause significant cardiovascular and respiratory depression.END
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Mike Arnold wrote 03/11/2007 08:13 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #132746 - 03/11/2007 08:13 PM
Mike Arnold Webboard User Reg: 07-09-2004 Posts: 1344 Loc: CNY Offline	Connie, Thanks for doing the research I should have done. I appreciate you. I'm not a fan of putting Max under for a toe nail. But I do trust the vet. Decisions, decisions. Mike A. "I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin." Hondo, played by John Wayne
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/11/2007 08:21 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Mike Arnold ] #132749 - 03/11/2007 08:21 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Mike Arnold I'm not a fan of putting Max under for a toe nail. But I do trust the vet. Decisions, decisions. No, I'm with you. Maybe the vet will consider a local instead of putting the dog under. I know that general anesthesia has come a long way in a short time, but I still feel the way you do about general for a toe nail.........
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Anne Vaini wrote 03/11/2007 08:35 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Mike Arnold ] #132752 - 03/11/2007 08:35 PM
Anne Vaini Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2005 Posts: 775 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	I remember seeing instructions posted at the vet clinic I worked at for placing a nerve block on/in cat's legs/paws before declawing. Perhaps your vet could perform a nerve block along with a sedative? Soft Claws claw caps may protect the quick until you and your vet decide the best plan of action. Unfortunately, they are superglued on so it might not be possible. Best of luck on this one! Keep us posted - I am very curious about this.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/11/2007 08:50 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Anne Vaini ] #132755 - 03/11/2007 08:50 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Anne Vaini I remember seeing instructions posted at the vet clinic I worked at for placing a nerve block on/in cat's legs/paws before declawing. Perhaps your vet could perform a nerve block along with a sedative? Soft Claws claw caps may protect the quick until you and your vet decide the best plan of action. Unfortunately, they are superglued on so it might not be possible. Best of luck on this one! Keep us posted - I am very curious about this. I'm very interested in this, too. One of those links I mentioned discusses the nerve block v. general, and one thing it brought up was the fact that with a local, the dog would for a time be ambulatory but with a non-functioning foot, creating a possibility of a fall. But that seems to me to be very workable as long as you were prepared and had an obedient dog, which Mike has. Also, I've had dogs who were pretty darned woozy many hours after general anesthesia...... woozy enough to fall downstairs, etc., I think, without careful guarding. Anyway, I hope we will hear about the decision, and that all will go VERY well.
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Sandy Moore wrote 03/13/2007 02:16 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #133045 - 03/13/2007 02:16 PM
Sandy Moore Webboard User Reg: 07-25-2006 Posts: 2665 Loc: AZ Offline	A local anesthetic sure sounds to be the best choice, if it's available. And Anne mentioning the nerve block for declawing cats (poor babies since their digit is actually cut off, not just the nail pulled, so I've heard!) has peaked my interest as to whether the same can be done for a dog's injured nail. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be available for dogs. ??
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Alison Mayo wrote 03/13/2007 02:46 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Sandy Moore ] #133049 - 03/13/2007 02:46 PM
Alison Mayo Webboard User Reg: 03-14-2005 Posts: 471 Loc: Canyon Lake, tx Offline	In cat declawing they clip the nail off the toe really, not the digit. It would be like removing your nail by pulling it our with pliers so the cuticle is gone so it won't grow back. ouch either way. Top Paw Training: serving Canyon Lake & New Braunfels, San Antonio to Austin.
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vickie ngala wrote 03/13/2007 03:01 PM Re: Toe nail [Re: Alison Mayo ] #133051 - 03/13/2007 03:01 PM
vickie ngala Webboard User Reg: 11-19-2005 Posts: 47 Loc: missouri Offline	just a clarification on the way most cat declaws are done; the last bone of the toe, the one with the nail attached, is removed. Basically it's an amputation of the distal phalanx of the toe. That leave two bones of the toe instead of three. Some people use a scalpel, others a dog toenail clipper, and some vets are using laser. It's done to dogs too, but for dogs it's a more difficult procedure and harder on the dog too, since they use their toenails differently than cats. I've heard of people doing it to stop a dog from scratching up a wood floor, which is a silly reason to amputate part of a toe, to me. vickie
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