Konnie,
I agree with you on that.
Sounds like he really wants a dog that would be courageous like that though. So, I answered.
We have run into big cat tracks here and known they have been close, my dogs would return to me.
But that is why we are armed and know how to use the guns we carry.
I really put too much time and effort into my dogs to have one tangled with a big wild animal.

I guess I should have added that into my posts.

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=136736#Post136736

Now that I read both of your posts on basically the same subject, I wish I would have not answered them. But the way my day went yesterday, it shows that when your really tired you do not think about the answers as much as you should...

Where are you at that a police department would want a dog that takes A LOT of time and training, dedication and money, to end up being severely hurt injured or killed by a large animal like that?

Or is it just you that watched the connected videos and decided that you want a dog like that?

Don't make get me wrong, I know that LE, Military, PPD and some Sport dogs will die for their handlers, but that is with other human threats.

Can't you carry a weapon?

You guys definitely have a point about a dead dog.

My wife and I don't own guns and I won't fire a gun at a bear even if I had one (there are more lions than bears but I never seem to run into them) because my wife will be totally against that. She is a biologist, one of the tree-hugging types and her project includes studying bears, chicadees and Richardson ground squirrels.

So I guess I am trying to kill two birds with one stone when acquiring dogs for S&R work. I would like to title at least one S&R dog with the SchH-3 title because I love the sport and I would like at least one S&R dog to function as a protector against bears. I don't like bears, period and could use a dog that will chase them away.

I like the description of the Karelian bear dog: "if a bear charges, the Karelian runs - TOWARDS the bear." Unfortunately the Karelian dogs available in North America seem unsuitable for S&R, Schutzhund, other dogs, even chasing bears. To get good Karelians, I would need to search in Finland, which seems ridiculous to me. I don't know any breeder there or anything about that country.




ED's COMMENTS EDITED IN:

Joseph Xavier s a complete NUT CASE - I mean a mental case. He lives at 471 WASHINTON AVE
COLORADO CITY AZ 86021

Phone 206-978-4385

He claimed to live in Canada and is in fact living in a strict mormon community that practises poligamy. On a scale of 1 to 10 he is in the 10 range for crazy people who have contacted us over the years

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This guy is completly nute - he is a mental case

Have you talked to your local SAR groups about having a titled Sport or PPD as a SAR dog?
Most of them do not accept dogs that "are trained to bite".

Joseph, have you ever owned a dog before or is this going to be your first? This is a good forum to learn about dogs. Expecting a dog to "fight" a bear is not a very reasonable expectation, and extremely dangerous to the animal. Try to find an experienced trainer in your area to help you along and learn about SchH and maybe find a SAR group that's willing to take in a novice, hope this helps,
AL

 Quote: al curbow

Joseph, have you ever owned a dog before or is this going to be your first? This is a good forum to learn about dogs. Expecting a dog to "fight" a bear is not a very reasonable expectation, and extremely dangerous to the animal. Try to find an experienced trainer in your area to help you along and learn about SchH and maybe find a SAR group that's willing to take in a novice, hope this helps,
AL

I second that motion and totally agree with Carol's posts as well.

My brother has a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I am not an expert on the breed, but it is a hound, high drive, and the breed originated in Africa to prtect villages from lions. May be worth checking into.

Carol is correct when she says that you canNOT have both a S&R AND SCH-trained dog. They go against one another.

You need ONE S&R dog and another dog for SCH.

Rhodesian Ridgebacks are supposed to be VERY courageous. Adrianna is correct they are hounds, but they are actually classed as sighthounds (not scenthounds). I wonder if they are used for schutzhund?

May I suggest you also look into the Louisiana Catahoula? They were developed for both hunting (wild boar) and herding (feral hogs and cattle), but I personally know of breeders who have dogs in S&R and also SCH and PP (no not the same dog!)

I don't know where you live, but they are more common in the South of the USA.

http://www.donabney.com/faq.shtml

 Quote: AdrianaParianos

My brother has a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I am not an expert on the breed, but it is a hound, high drive, and the breed originated in Africa to prtect villages from lions. May be worth checking into.

They were used for tracking lions, and were not intended to have confrontations - although some people will try to tell you that they were trained to fight lions.

Besides, although it's true that they have a high prey drive, hounds are really different from a mal or a gsd. I doubt you'd have much success with schutzhund, but they might be okay at SAR. The training is slower, for sure. I'm used to hounds, and when I work with a Border collie or a Mal, I feel like someone hit a fast forward button.

EDIT: In response to Angela, I've looked around and haven't heard much about ridgebacks in schutzhund. Someone on this forum mentioned that they knew a ridgeback who tried schutzhund and didn't do well. There's also several websites devoted to keeping the breed out of schutzhund, but they could just be anti-schutzhund in general.

There's ongoing debates about whether they're sighthounds or scenthounds - and they're classified differently depending on what country you're in. I'd say they're a mix of both. They've got both sighthounds, scenthounds, and some working breeds in their background.

> Carol is correct when she says that you
> canNOT have both a S&R AND SCH-trained
> dog. They go against one another.

The person in charge of the S&R effort here is a vet who lives and works about 100 miles away. He actually insists only on labs for S&R work. He detests breeds like border collie - which I can't understand. He also looks at temperament testing of 7-10 week pups and refuses to look at older dogs, which is also something I don't understand. I feel uncomfortable testing the temperament of dogs less than a year old.

Thankfully, he is a fan of Schutzhund and equally thankfully there is absolutely no one but me in my area who can help out in S&R work. There are hunters and hikers from all over the world who get lost here and need to be rescued. He hates being dragged over a 100 miles every now and then just because a hiker strayed off the trail wanting to take a short-cut.

So as long as I have a dog with super-great temperament, he has no objection to me using a SchH-trained dog for S&R work.





ED's COMMENTS EDITED IN:

Joseph Xavier s a complete NUT CASE - I mean a mental case. He lives at 471 WASHINTON AVE
COLORADO CITY AZ 86021

Phone 206-978-4385

He claimed to live in Canada and is in fact living in a strict mormon community that practises poligamy. On a scale of 1 to 10 he is in the 10 range for crazy people who have contacted us over the years

---

This guy is completly nute - he is a mental case