Chuck, You are so right. I often scratch my head reading all this info on dog nutrition and training and thinking where was I when it came to myself and family. I think it comes down to control. It's just easier to control what the dog eats.How many books did you guys read on raising children or on nutrition?

Milt

Jason, where are you comming up with all of this information? Are you speaking from experience, book knowledge, or both? What caused you to start fasting you're dogs to begin with? I'm not disagreeing because I have no experience in fasting my dog. I have to admit this fasting stuff sounds logical if what you are saying is true. I guess I'm just more comfortable knowing that this practice and fasting information is held to be true by more than ONE expert, vet, etc.

Glenn fasting is quite prevalent and it comes from more then one source. I believe Ed in one of his post says he fast his dogs. Going past the biological aspects,the theory is that wolves go without food for days before they find prey.

Glenn,

Fasting is nothing new and I certainly did not invent it. My knowledge on this comes from books, personal experience, and observations of nature. Animals do it all the time, including humans. I believe that the common flue is most often a manditory fast, triggered by the body, when it is no longer able to cope with our maltreatment of it.

The ancient Greeks fasted regularly, and were well known for their robust physical health.
Galen, Paracelsus and Hippocrates, who are recognized as the founding fathers of western medicine, prescribed and practiced fasting for all serious ailments and recommended it as an excellent preventive regimen. Plato and Aristotle fasted regularly. The list goes on, and on, and on. I'm sure that you could name a few more.

This information has been out there, and used, for thousands of years. Although the AMA is certainly doing their best to get us to forget about it. Bad for business you know!! (JMO)

I have been fasting for 7-10 days, twice yearly, for 5 years now. In that time I have never been "sick", when I used to succumb to, at the very least, a yearly cold. This is all of the proof that I require. I am not trying to convince people that they need to go out and do what I do. I only want you to consider fasting as another form of medicine for your dogs, for it is the best medicine that I have ever come across.

Thanks for starting this thread, Jason. It's an important subject. But I have some issues with your first post.

First, let me say that I agree that fasting has many benefits. No argument there. In fact, research shows that a constantly low-calorie diet (well below the comfort zone for anyone but a fanatic) can greatly extend the lifespan of rats. No one has yet tried it in humans, at least not in a controlled experiment. And if you believe the evolutionary argument (which is not a slam dunk, but useful), then dogs obviously are "designed" to fast once in a while. As are we.

But, Jason, you wrote:

"Every time your dog eats something, enzymes are dispatched to the stomach to aid in digestion. The dogs body gets used to a meal every day and too many of these enzymes are held on "stand by" because of this. However, if the dog skips a meal or two something else happens. These enzymes now are given the "green light" and are free to roam about the rest of the body and "clean up" whatever problems may be troubling him. The body of the dog knows best what these problems are and he will dispatch these enzymes to that particular region which is giving him the most distress. This will keep your dogs immune system in tip top condition; ready and waiting for any "uninvited guests" to pounce on. When the dog is spending all of his "enzyme energy" on digesting food, he simply falls behind in his regular maintenance of the entire system; Leaving the immune system vulnerable to all kinds of attacks. I believe that fasting for one day a week is one of the best ways to help your dog stay healthy and caught up with his chores within his body."

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. Enzymes don't "wander" around the body.

An enzyme is simply a protein molecule that catalyzes a metabolic reaction without in itself being consumed. An enzyme requires specific conditions in order to function. It is inactive elsewhere. And it doesn't have any "intelligence." In fact, one potential problem with enzyme supplements is that enzymes don't (and can't) know the difference between food and self--they will happily help digest anything that comes their way under the right conditions. That's one reason the stomach lining is such a complex membrane.

I believe you may be confusing enzymes with the more complex activities possible to immune system cells, which _can_ tell the difference and which use enzymes (not the same digestive enzymes found in the stomach secrections) to destroy invading bacteria.

I don't know what the mechanism of fasting is, but that's not it. Nonetheless, I agree that fasting your dogs, and/or yourself, is something that deserves serious consideration.

Dave,

I do understand what you are saying. I don't think that I am confused however. I tried to simplify for reasons of comprehension. People who are "in the know" scientifically can and will say that I am full of it, and that's ok with me. You are correct if you take my post "as is" so I will expand a bit.

I think the main point of fasting is this...
The body is always in "self repair" mode and this requires a considerable amount of energy.
Digestion also requires considerable amounts of energy. If you are always in digestion mode then it will take away from the bodies ability to repair itself, plain and simple.

And...
Yes, there are many different types of enzymes. They are biochemical catalysts secreted by the pancreas and other glands and organs. SOME are used for digestion, while others enter the bloodstream to scavenge for dangerous microbes, dead and damaged cells, and toxins. I believe that it is the displacement of energy (or focus) do to over consumption of incompatable foods that brings down the effectivness of these enzymes whose job it is to yes "wander around the body" on a search and destroy mission. The body has its priorities and digestion seems to be at the head of that list, even at the expense of over all health and vigor. Until the body breaks down anyway.

I think if there was no conflict between eating and self-healing then you would not see a dog skip a meal on his own accord when he wasn't feeling well. Likewise, you would still crave 3 squares a day when you had the flue. This is the reason I am comfortable making the correlation between the two. (Not eating and self healing that is)

Jason says: The ancient Greeks fasted regularly, and were well known for their robust physical health.
Galen, Paracelsus and Hippocrates, who are recognized as the founding fathers of western medicine, prescribed and practiced fasting for all serious ailments and recommended it as an excellent preventive regimen. Plato and Aristotle fasted regularly. The list goes on, and on, and on. I'm sure that you could name a few more.

Aren't we comparing apples and oranges here? Again, I am not sure what to think about this fasting stuff. I guess the question I still have is where's the proof that fasting is beneficial to the dog? Is the proof tangible? For instance you can prove that by using a certain product or feeding certian foods a dogs coat can improve tremendously. You know it because you "CAN SEE" the improvement. So is you're thinking the dog is healthier because of wishful thinking or is there tangible proof of better health? What are you seeing in the dog?

Glenn wrote:

"Aren't we comparing apples and oranges here?"

J:
No. We often do research on other animals to develope medicine for ourselves. This is just the opposite of that so I don't think it's a case of apples and oranges at all.

Yes what I am saying is theory but when it comes down to it, what isn't? I cannot offer any proof to you that I haven't already offered. Give me a break I'm a Farmer not a Doctor. I do this because it APPEARS TO WORK and it makes perfect sense to me. I have tried to speculate here as to why and how it works, but I don't KNOW when push comes to shove. Maybe my dogs and I wouldn't have gotten sick anyway. Maybe all of these people are crazy that I mentioned. Maybe you are the odd-ball to not see that it happens all around you in nature since time began. Maybe.....

Nothing is for sure man

As to the improvements you should expect to see, they would include some of the following:

An animal with more energy than before; An animal who is healthier looking (all the way arround) than before; and finally my favorite, an animal who seems to have a "healthier mind" than before, taking to training better (more quickly), especially so the first few days after a fast, before the crap starts building up again...JMO

Jason you needen't (sp) take my post so personally. My questions were not meant to do anything other than resolve the questions I have about this topic. I think you're posts are very interesting and as I said in an earlier post you're theories sound logical to me. I just want to be able to defend my position on fasting a dog if need be. I feel I might be opened up to the same kind of questions I'm asking so I would like to have a good solid answer. I think it is a great topic to discuss. Carry on my man!

Glenn, In "The Nature of Animal Healing" by Martin Goldstein he had the same observations about his dogs mental and physical health as posted by Jason. The first time Dr. Goldstein fasted his dogs he didn't know what to expect. He thought that maybe because of hunger that the dogs would be lethargic. It was the opposite they actually had more energy and alertness.Jason has no knowledge of this book or the Dr. and observed the same. I know this is only two peoples opinion and it doesn't offer any long studies,but I'm buying into it. I know quite a few health nuts that have done the one day water fast for years. How about you and I do a 24 hr, fast tomorrow and see how we feel Sunday.

Milt