Quote: keith larson

Collars cause neck damage to dogs.

http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-20060102-jill.html

Are you serious about this, Keith? This is a link to something about embedded collars, caused when the owner doesn't remove the small puppy collar as the dog grows. We are saying that RFID chips cause cancer. Not that they cause cancer when installed improperly, but when they are being used normally. Do you not understand the difference?

 Quote: keith larson

I bet if someone was paid to do a study on dog diapers they would find something.

I am guessing you googled doggie diapers, and couldn't find anything, and that is why you didn't post an irrelevent article here about why if you don't take off doggie diapers, the dog gets a rash or something...

 Quote: keith larson

I'm just saying that people hear "X causes Cancer" and they flip out.

In my neighborhood, my dog is probably 100X more likely to be eaten by a coyote than to get Cancer from just about anything.

It's too bad the chip couldn't form a forcefield around the dog to fend off the coyotes, that I would support!

 Quote: keith larson

Decide for yourself, I think the risk is minimal, if any, and I'd rather make sure I get Starbuck back if she is lost somewhere. And if you think a Tattoo is the solution then read the Mal Tatt thread.

Or an even better solution, don't lose your dog. I am looking down right now at Bella just laying there beside me, on leash, and she isn't going anywhere! When do dogs get lost? Seems to me she would have to charge out the front door , dig under a fence, claw through the walls, break the leash/collar--all of these things can be solved by the owner-easily. Name one that can't!

Keep the dog either in the crate, or on leash next to you at all times, and these things won't happen. Is that so hard? If the dog is very strong, maybe two collars with a tab to connect the two is a good idea. Also, a good recall is obviously very useful in this situation. For me, "come" is the #1 most important command that I want my dog to know. I'm not sure if "professionals" would agree, but I have always wanted to ensure first thing that the Bella will come to me hard and fast when I call her.

To me this argument is similar to the argument of over-vaccinating. You are trying to prevent something terrible from happening by injecting something in that doesn't belong there. The result, something terrible...

Rick,

I'm not going to argue every point with you.

If anyone on this board can honestly say that your dog has NEVER been out of your site/control, even for 1 minute, raise your hand.

Manage the large risks

Ignore the small risks

"To me this argument is similar to the argument of over-vaccinating. You are trying to prevent something terrible from happening by injecting something in that doesn't belong there. The result, something terrible..."

Foreign objects in a living creature is just asking for trouble. For example breast implants. How about birthcontrol inserts under the skin. IUDs. The list goes on and on. Many people advocate raw diets because it's natural. Many also say don't vaccinate. So why and go and insert a foreign object into a living body that you don't know for sure what will happen down the road. A lot of things are deemed safe at first until enough people complain about side effects.

I agree.....all of my dogs are chipped and some of them have been for years. No signs of cancer yet.

The risk of one of my dogs being "lost" or better yet "STOLEN" outwieghs the risk of cancer for me.

I am more likely to die from my parachute not opening to getting cancer from a few diet cokes a week and my dogs are more likely to escape thier crate rather than get cancer.

Now before someone tells me to get better crates, please know tha I take evey precaution to make sure my dogs are well secured.

If someone can give me an alternative (collars can be removed and tattooes can be altered or scarred to deem unreadable) then that would be great.

I have a lot of time, hard work and money in all of my dogs, not to mention how attached I am to them, to not try and minimize the risks of losing them or having them be stolen by some jerk.

I feed raw and minimally vaccinate.....

Rick, remember it takes just that one tiny moment when you're not alert. Things can happen to good people with good dogs even though there is constant vigil.

Lear burst out the locked screen door once when he was much younger. I thought he was much too young and therefore not strong enough to do that. I was wrong. He saw one of his nemesis Chihuahuas who always barked at him going down our sidewalk. That's all it took, he was gone in a flash like the door wasn't there.

I ran outside and couldn't see him, yelled at the top of my lungs to him to come. I was accompanied by the most horrendous feelings and had to fight not to panic in the midst of those feelings.

Fortunately, as you said was important, his recall is good. He came out from a side yard 3 houses down and came right to me.

Needless to say, the front door is now always shut. Losing a beloved dog like that can be more devastating than being there when their days are over. Because you never know what happened to them and that's a bit much to carry.

I don't know that a chip is any guarantee a person would ever get their dog back, if the dog ends up hit by a car or taken by someone. But it's better than little tags that fall off during normal play (been there, done that).

Edited to add: you have to weigh the risks. Surgery for humans as well as animals is extremely risky, but if it's absolutely necessary, the odds are everything will be ok in spite of a small number of unacceptable consequences.

 Quote: denise hau

Foreign objects in a living creature is just asking for trouble. For example breast implants. How about birthcontrol inserts under the skin. IUDs. The list goes on and on.

Perhaps... but what about the bit of splinter I got in my finger when I was 7 that I was never able to get out - what about bullets and fragments of explosives that soldiers carry around their whole lives - what about life SAVING implants like artificial heart valves and bone plates? I'm not going to worry about my splinter giving me cancer one day, I've met a few soldiers who don't seem particularly concerned about their "souveniers" (as long as they aren't lodged in dangerous locations) and in fact you could make some pretty GOOD arguments for the importance of a LOT of foreign objects inserted into the bodies of humans and animals, so long as their presence is a benefit to the carrier.

At the end of the day, just like raw feeding and minimal vax, microchiping is at the sole discretion of each and every pet owner - though I don't think it is fundamentally related to the other 2 - so to each his own.

~Natalya

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

and in fact you could make some pretty GOOD arguments for the importance of a LOT of foreign objects inserted into the bodies of humans and animals, so long as their presence is a benefit to the carrier.

I agree, and this is why I am getting an entire robot body for my dog! Of course the RFID will probably included along with wireless internet...

By the way, no offense to any of you all here, especially folks with 6 dogs, but the dogs get away because you lost control of them. I have one dog, and she doesn't run around free anytime. In the house she is laying beside me on leash or in the crate. When I am gone she is in the crate. If I had more than one dog, or lived on a sizeable amount of property, I may let the dog run free. I live in an apartment in the city, and I have to keep the dog with me.

I am not saying the dog may not catch you off gaurd and run away from you sometime but that is where a good recall is crutial. When I say come, my dog jumps and immediately turns around and runs at me like something awesome is about to happen! And it is!!

Everybody has made good points. Chips and/or tattoos, whatever choice you make, there is no guarantee your dog will be returned unless the finder makes the effort to find you.