You guys are having much too much fun at this, lol

 Quote: RobbinMann

Really! What was I thinking? LOL!

THANK YOU for realizing how much solid good sense there was in the replies.

 Quote: debbie bruce

If you want to find out how much his genetics are in demand you could advertise him as a stud, and be sure to mention that he is a cryptorchid. Personally I would risk it.

I intended to say "I wouldN'T risk it."
Dang those typos.

Robbin,

I'll put my .02 in on this subject...

1. I absolutely adore black GSD's as well, and I have never seen one that is ugly. BUT, unless I was willing to wait a minimum of two years during my search for a pup I would not limit myself that way. When I searched for my current pup, I knew I wanted a working line GSD. Black was my first preference in color, but I did not limit myself at all for appearance. I wanted temperment and health first and foremost. I was on the waiting list with Leerburg for almost a year and I was coming very close to the top of the waiting list when the CJ/China (mostly all black) litter was born. At that point I was hoping to get a female from that litter. I did not, but then I came across the posting of the AI breeding of Natan/Sage that was listed as "not for sale". I told my wife that I doubted they would keep all seven females. Sure enough, I got the opportunity to get one of them. When I drove up to Leerburg to pick up the pup China was still there recovering from her litter. While I was walking past her I mentioned that I was hoping to get a pup from her litter and Ed looked at me and said "Don't worry, you got the right pup". Boy was he right.

2. This is my first female, and quite frankly I am in LOVE with this little girl! I had a male GSD, who was the definition of a male GSD. He was big, goofy, fun, and not outwardly affectionate. He was VERY aloof to those he did not know well, and if he gave you a lick it was a rare occurance. My female Lowen has proved to be an amazing animal. In the home, she is the sweetest thing in the world. Ridiculously affectionate to the point that she is a 70 pound lap dog. Not mouthy or a nipper at all and very much a velcro dog. Pack is everything to her. She would rather be with me than eat or potty. When I come home from work and let her out of her crate to go outside to potty she runs outside, and when she gets to the bottom of the stairs she turns around and runs back up. She missed us all day and would rather spend some time with us than go potty right away! She is a nut. As far as temperment, she is not dog aggressive one bit, is supremely confident in all surroundings, VERY clear headed, and AMAZING with kids. On the field she lives to work and please, is all power and grace, has all the drive I could ever ask for and shows enough power and grip to impress the most experienced Schutzhund trainers.

3. There is ONLY one reason to breed your dog. To better the breed. If your dog has 100% desirable genetics coupled with all health certifications and was titled AND you have either worked with an experienced breeder to sufficiently learn how to read pedigrees as well as understand how to match the right bitch to the right dog to create a litter of pups with the temperment that you are striving for, then go ahead. The only way I would ever breed my female is if she proves to be worthy through titling and health certification, and I would only do it then in a partnership with an experienced breeder for the sole purpose to get first choice on a male pup.

Well, Robbin, we spoke on the phone but I just wanted to say one more thing (what else is new?) to address the breeding issue, which I know you were just thinking out loud about.

I think breeding dogs is or should be a career versus a hobby. It should be approached like a job or career you really love and are willing to spend hours doing and researching. Even those who do it with that passion don't get it right.

As my trainer told me, in the beginning of "creating" the GSD (or any good breed for that matter), not many dogs/pups lived because they didn't meet the standard or better said "specimen standard" that Von Stephanitz was going for. No telling how many pups and dogs were culled and destroyed , something we're not willing to do nowadays. Breeding is a serious endeavor. If someone doesn't know what they're doing, the breed will definitely suffer for it, not just physically but temperament and character as well.

I want to engrave this in stone with letters a foot tall:

 Quote: sandy moore

I think breeding dogs is or should be a career versus a hobby. It should be approached like a job or career you really love and are willing to spend hours doing and researching. Even those who do it with that passion don't get it right.

As my trainer told me, in the beginning of "creating" the GSD (or any good breed for that matter), not many dogs/pups lived because they didn't meet the standard or better said "specimen standard" that Von Stephanitz was going for. No telling how many pups and dogs were culled and destroyed , something we're not willing to do nowadays. Breeding is a serious endeavor. If someone doesn't know what they're doing, the breed will definitely suffer for it, not just physically but temperament and character as well.

Beautifully said, to all...can u imagine what havoc might have occurred if I hadn't expressed my thoughts to the forum?? You have all convinced me that breeding is something I have neither the time or patience for at this point in my life. Training Levi should be fun for years to come, coupled with raising children and a husband, teehee, I'll be plenty busy. Still, if anyone knows someone with a well bred black pup that didn't get placed, give me a call I'll give it a good home, less any thoughts of breeding. I'll even put that in writing I guess I knew in the back of my mind it was crazy (thus, the slap request) but I still learned alot of things I hadn't thought of b4. Quite involved isn't it? Breeding dogs, I mean. It took my respect up another notch for those that do it well and with much time and thought. Don't consider me too stupid though, coming to this forum has taught me some things. I actually have a friend who has an American gsd bitch, that was inquiring if I would breed Levi to her..I said, "Nuh, uh". They did buy her from a back yrd breeder, who gave them the pup at six weeks. So, see guys??? I'm learning!!!

Robin,
I'll take the other side of this issue. Go ahead breed away!
I own a rescue group/shelter and I checked my e-mail before writing this post. I only have 5500 e-mails in my inbox of dogs (and a few cats) that are desperately trying to get out of pounds here in Illinois before they get the needle. Don't worry I'll find homes for ten of the twelve pups at various times over the next seven or eight years.

On to serious stuff I have a friend that belongs to my training club here in Chicago that just bred his Czech female (all black)to an incredible German working line male (all black). Pups should be born in about 5-6 weeks. Poor Jenni has got to be puking right about now. For those of you who do not understand Jenni, I am sure she hates brunettes also, but, if you have ever had the pleasure of being with her in person she is probably the most beautiful brunette (or blond, or redhead, etc) that you will ever lay your eyes on and she might come off as being an "overly emancipated American b!*<#" (her words), but, she has a heart of gold (with black DDR GSD hairs all over it).
Haha Jenni, the secrets out!
(I'll take my slapping now)
--Steve

 Quote: stevezorn

Go ahead breed away!
I own a rescue group/shelter and I checked my e-mail before writing this post. I only have 5500 e-mails in my inbox of dogs (and a few cats) that are desperately trying to get out of pounds here in Illinois before they get the needle. Don't worry I'll find homes for ten of the twelve pups at various times over the next seven or eight years.

And every one of those doomed dogs had a human who either neglected to prevent an oops litter or actively bred them.

Thank you for bringing up the fact that is in the forefront of my mind every time someone mentions casual breeding.

I am NOT talking about Robbin, who was quick to see the truth. And I'm definitely not talking about the forum members here, who are well aware of the serious responsibility involved in breeding and who would not breed for any reason but the ones outlined earlier in the thread.

I'm talking about the people who breed because their pet is "cute," or so their children can see "the miracle of birth." I want them to go to the shelter to watch the miracle of the needle, thousands every day, or maybe the miracle of shelter-crazed dogs.

MILLIONS (not thousands) of dogs entering shelters every year, and 25% of them are purebreds. Most never find a permanent home.

OK. Off the soap box. I know the tirade doesn't have an appropriate audience on a forum like this, but we responsible types can pass the word. Thanks, Steve.

 Quote: stevezorn

On to serious stuff I have a friend that belongs to my training club here in Chicago that just bred his Czech female (all black)to an incredible German working line male (all black). Poor Jenni has got to be puking right about now.

Now, wait a minute. I said specifically that breeding black to black is not something I would do unless the other dog was absolutely exceptional. I didn't say no one should ever do it. From time to time, the best temperamental match may be another black dog, but the trend is sickening. Just yesterday I was in a pet store, butting into other people's business (read- steering away from SD) and got into a conversation about GSDs. The guy tells me that he knows someone who trains at __________ nearby here (don't want to put the kennel (huge) b/c it's not about the kennel at all and I don't want this to pop up in searches) is going to be getting into black GSDs, because they're the most aggressive. Did I not say this was like "blue Pit Bulls???" UGH. I, of course, being a typical, over-emancipated American B*&^$, TOAB for short, (NOT my words-words of forum admin who kicked me off :grin had to step in and explain that a black GSD is NOT A BREED. It is merely a color. I think part of the confusion in this particular case is that this guy normally trains at a primarily show club. There are a bunch of black and reds, and one black dog...who is the most aggressive. Well, DUH; he's working lines!!! So I went through the whole show vs. working, etc... He was dumbfounded and looked like he didn't believe me when I said that I have a black dog whose parents were not black. Neither of them.

Anywho, I think Robbin has been adequately slapped, as requested, so I don't feel too terrible about continuing to be off-topic. Color is just one stupid reason to breed. There are many reasons to breed, but few of them are good. My experience yesterday was exactly my fear of the future of black GSDs, or I should say the future of the GSD if morons continue to breed w/little to no thought or planning, and for things like color. At least where I live, black GSDs are really ooohed and aaaahhhed when seen. And then when I hear a color linked to aggression... Wouldn't it just be peachy if black GSDs ended up w/a stigma like red nosed or blue Pits? Can't wait.

 Quote: steve zorn

For those of you who do not understand Jenni

Yes, Steve has a deep understanding of my innermost thougths based on our total of about 45 minutes together.

 Quote: steve zorn

I am sure she hates brunettes also, but, if you have ever had the pleasure of being with her in person she is probably the most beautiful brunette (or blond, or redhead, etc) that you will ever lay your eyes on and she might come off as being an "overly emancipated American b!*<#" (her words)

Flattery is shallow and gets you nowhere.

 Quote: steve zorn

but, she has a heart of gold (with black DDR GSD hairs all over it)

You have no proof.